Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

Please - any experience with 20 month poor sleep?

6 replies

Rosesandqualitystreet · 28/04/2021 22:17

In a nutshell, I would love to hear from anyone who has got past a phase of bad sleep at 20 months.

Previously fed to sleep my little baby, slept well and could be out down at night awake.

Since 16 months, screaming and cot refusal and milk refusal and very very clingy through the day.

Tried to make changes: now sleeping on the floor next to son in his sleepyhead grande on the floor. Takes 90 mins to get him to sleep - climbing over me , tired but seems happy, dummy in, eventually falls asleep on me. Wakes in the night, I go back give him milk, he lies next to me and sleeps. Clingy and upset most of the day,

Please please any thoughts? Not against sleep training at all but feel he is too old for it / gets too upset.

My marriage is in tatters, only I can do all the sleep stuff. Husband upset, me worn out.

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 29/04/2021 13:17

He is not too old for sleep training. It's just the work you need to do through the 18 month sleep regression (which this sounds liks) is about actively teaching him stiff, rather than just tolerating crying until a younger baby accepts your way. This time you need to teach him through repetativness, consistency and clear expectations.

A big mistake made here is getting rid if the cot, it will make everything from here going forward mire difficult. You will most likely end up cosleeping in his bed.

So start with bringing back the cot.

At this age you need to give your child autonomy over their movements, so indeiendance if choice. But (big but) set your expectations and accept nothing less. So you are accepting that baby can (for example) climb up the cot / stand up, but you expect them to choose not to at sleep time. Largely this is a behaviour issue, not a sleep issue. Welcome To Toddlerhood!

So your expectations need to be that at sleep time baby will lie down, be still and be quiet. What you can't do is make him sleep. But you can expect him to lie down, be still and be quiet (and he should hopefully relax his mind and body and so sleep)

Start with independence of movement: always put him in the cot standing, tap cot mattress and tell him to lie down.

Never put him in lying down or even sitting up. Play instruction following games in the daytime to encourage this. You'll be surprised how much he understands and can follow instructions. Plus he will love the praise. Take this to the bin, put this on the table, give this to daddy, where is the ball, bring me the tv remote. Give as much independant movement as possible too. Don't lift him into the sofa, tap, tell him to get up, watch him climb. Plus anything else physical he can do.

With instruction following and physically following instructions sorted, your bedtime wants to be:
● Into cot stood up in a sleeping bag.
● Leave dummy on cot matress. Tell him to get his dummy. (Don't give it him). This will get him sitting down.
● Tap matress, tell him to lie down. Wait. Praise, smile and bend down to him in the cot when he does.
● Say a mantra, something that encompasses all your expectations. "Sleep time now. We lie down quietly to go to sleep. Nan night", for example.
● Stay bending into the cot. Eye contact and smiles as you say mantra. Place your hand firmly on his chest and wait. Either a few seconds or a few minutes until he is still, quiet and calm.
○ If he doesn't get to being still, quiet, calm - remove eye contact, have a cross face, swiftly put your hands under his armpits and lift him straight out of the cot to stand up in front of you. Kneel to his level. Say "No", have a cross tone. Repeat mantra. Then start again. Keep on repeating this over and over and over again until he does get to being still, quiet and calm with your hand on his chest.
● Within a minute or so of being calm, quiet and still (So don't linger) remove your hand but stay bent over the cot. Eye contact, smile, positive and compassionate face. You need to reaffirm your praise in your facial expression, while being quiet and calm.
● Stay bent over the cot for a minute or two of quiet, calm, still. Then stand, turn and face the door. Stay stood by the cot but facing away. Have something to do so that he sees he is being ignored but you are there. Scrolling on your phone is ideal. Stay until fully asleep then seek out.
○ If at any point he goes for sitting up or making noise, turn back to him, bend back over the cot. Repeat mantra, tap mattress and tell him to lie down, hand in chest and start again. Just keep repeating over and over and over and over and over again, always the same.
● Once he's OK with you scrolling in your phone next to the cot while he goes yo sleep, give it a few days and start taking a step or two away from the bed to wait. Then after a week or so start waiting by the doorway, then outside the door, then in hallway just out of sight.
○ Throughout all of this at every step, any deviation from your expectations (lie down, be still, be quiet) you go back and start again. Over and over again, always the same, always consistant.

Rosesandqualitystreet · 29/04/2021 13:33

I cry with thanks to you,

Will follow to the letter, if he gets really really distressed at some point do I just carry on with steps above? Will he calm down without being picked up?

OP posts:
Rosesandqualitystreet · 29/04/2021 13:38

Sorry another question .. the same at night wakings?

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 29/04/2021 14:39

Same for night wakings, yes.

if he gets really really distressed at some point do I just carry on with steps above? Will he calm down without being picked up?

This suggests you don't understand what I have written.

There is no leaving him to get very distressed. None at all (it wouldn't work at this age at all). I thought I'd explained that nut I'll try again.

The idea is to have a "Ladder" of events that you go through until fully asleep. You always follow these identically. Any distress, you go back up the ladder until he's calm. Then go back down the ladder again.

I wrote a section of the ladder above (from going in the cot until asleep). There will be a section before that. For example:

  1. Quiet cuddles on the sofa
  2. Milk 3a) Bath, if you're giving one. If not... 3b) Get ready for bed (night clothes, brush teeth)
  3. Pre bed routine (Story, kiss - keep this short, not prolonged)
  4. Into cot stood
  5. say mantra
  6. lie down (unaided), get dummy (unaided) Repeat mantra.
  7. You bend close, hand on chest, positive eye contact. Shushh if needed, maybe the odd pat with your hand.
  8. once calm, hand off, stay bent over cot for a few mins.
  9. once calm, stand facing away from the cot
  10. stay until asleep.

Only go to the next step if calm.
If not following the expectations in your mantra (lie down quietly) then reverse up a step.
If still not lying quietly go back further. This may involve coming out of the cot and starting all over again. In fact initially expect to go back to the start many times.

You may be constantly in a cycle of

  • in cot stood
  • lie down
  • bend into the cot, won't settle
  • Out of cot (change positive face to return one - "NO. We lie down quietly in bed"
  • In cot stood up
  • Refuse to lie down
  • Out of cot "NO. We lie down quietly in bed".
  • Back in cot.
  • Tap matress and looksturn/expectant
  • Follows instruction so sturn face becomes praise, smiles.
  • Hand on chest
  • Starts to settle but keeps wriggling. Refuses to still after a few minutes
  • Out of cot. "NO. We lie down and stay still in bed". Sturn face
  • In cot stood up
  • Instruction to lie down done quickly. Positive praise face.
  • Bend close. Repeat mantra (emphasise quiet and still). Hand on chest. Wait for quiet calm.
  • Hand off chest bit bent close
  • Goes for sitting up.
  • "NO. We lie down in bed". Sturn face. Tap matress (back to point 7).
  • Hand on chest. Wait to settle
  • Hand off, stay bent over cot. Positive facial expression and eye contact in place of praise for following instruction. Wait.
  • Stayed calm so stand and turn round
  • He stand up.
  • Straight out of cot stood on floor. "NO. We lie down in bed"
  • Now you're back at point 5 again.
  • Crying, won't go in cot. Reverse backwards.
  • Go go 4 and have a cuddle, kiss and story to calm him before starting. Or maybe rewind to 2 and revive milk, brush teeth again, etc. Go back as far as needed until calm...
  • But always always, always progress forward in exactly the same, consistent and expected ways. Never deviate, never delay or slow down. Keep moving on to the next step when calm. Move backwards through the steps if not.

Initially, certainly for the first week, tgis will take A LOT of time and effort.

And soon....

Rosesandqualitystreet · 29/04/2021 14:59

Thanks again, and for all the extra info.

If he doesn't get to being still, quiet, calm - remove eye contact, have a cross face, swiftly put your hands under his armpits and lift him straight out of the cot to stand up in front of you

I had misread the bit above, read as lift him straight up in the cot.

Feeling good about this now, can I pay you ?!

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 29/04/2021 15:49

No need, of course. Good luck.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page