Night weaning at 9 months- which strategy to choose?

[Miriam101]

Hello everyone, looking for a bit of advice for our 9/nearly 10 month old, who still breastfeeds twice a night (different times every night but usually 12ish and 3ish. Sometimes just the once.) I would really like to stop this as am exhausted and going back to work soon. I'm going over strategies in my head but can't decide which is better- grateful for any tips.

a- wake him slightly for a dreamfeed at 10ish and then don't feed again until 6am. send in DP to cuddle/rock in between those times. I've never done dreamfeed before but thought it might be a gentler way and also a means of reassuring myself he's not thirsty later on in night.

b- no dreamfeed. send in DP with a sippy cup of water to offer, cuddle etc.

c- if anyone's got any better suggestions please say!

DS is on three solid meals a day plus three breastfeeds plus a snack/cup of formula so he's getting plenty of sustenance during the day...
Thanks in advance!

I would go A I thinks be prepared for screaming! Dd was most unimpressed with me and would have called Childline if she could

Don’t give in, it’s crap but it does pass very quickly. She’s forgiven me in about 3 days. Good luck!

Thanks @Ostryga yes i am braced for unhappiness. Did your DP cuddle her to sleep and put her back down, or did he do the "check at regular intervals" thing? I don't want to be too brutal (though have nothing against CC- have done it before), but also don't want to just create another sleep crutch. Ach, it's so hard to know what to do for the best!

I'd do B

Cold turkey? No night feeds at all.

Thanks @FATEdestiny I know from stalking this board that you're an expert in this! Do you think dreamfeed at this age is just confusing matters?

Yes. A dream feed at this age is no mire than comfort (as are all calories at night). That's not to dismiss comfort - it is a need equally as vital as calories. But a different thing.

That said, you will initially need to deal with some unsatisfied hunger. To put some (made up) numbers to this, imagine a baby needed 1000 calories in 24h:

• Baby is capable of getting all those 1000 calories between 7am and 7pm. So zero calories needed 7pm-7am.
• But if baby is used to getting 300 of those calories at night, they will only be taking 700 in the daytime.
• So when you might wean, baby had 700 calories in the day and needs those extra calories at night.
• But if you give then, then baby will again only take 700 cal the next day.
• So that first night (or few), baby will have had 300 cal overnight the night before. Then only needs 700 cal the next day and will refuse to take any more. So come bedtime, you have to power through that (genuine) hunger and not give any at night even though they are needed/wanted.
• the good thing is though, by morning baby will be very, very hungry the next day and it should only then take a few days to shift all calorie intake to the day.
• but there will be an uncomfortable few days in the transition.

Some things to note. Night weaning is not a magic wand and will not stop night wakes, they will continue. Night weaning is the first step to sleeping through, night weaning does not equal sleeping through.

You can only night wean if you have an effective alternate way to comfort baby back to sleep.

@FATEdestiny

Yes. A dream feed at this age is no mire than comfort (as are all calories at night). That's not to dismiss comfort - it is a need equally as vital as calories. But a different thing.

That said, you will initially need to deal with some unsatisfied hunger. To put some (made up) numbers to this, imagine a baby needed 1000 calories in 24h:

• Baby is capable of getting all those 1000 calories between 7am and 7pm. So zero calories needed 7pm-7am.
• But if baby is used to getting 300 of those calories at night, they will only be taking 700 in the daytime.
• So when you might wean, baby had 700 calories in the day and needs those extra calories at night.
• But if you give then, then baby will again only take 700 cal the next day.
• So that first night (or few), baby will have had 300 cal overnight the night before. Then only needs 700 cal the next day and will refuse to take any more. So come bedtime, you have to power through that (genuine) hunger and not give any at night even though they are needed/wanted.
• the good thing is though, by morning baby will be very, very hungry the next day and it should only then take a few days to shift all calorie intake to the day.
• but there will be an uncomfortable few days in the transition.

Some things to note. Night weaning is not a magic wand and will not stop night wakes, they will continue. Night weaning is the first step to sleeping through, night weaning does not equal sleeping through.

You can only night wean if you have an effective alternate way to comfort baby back to sleep.

Sorry for crashing the thread! How do you assist them to sleep through Fate? My 15 month old has a great routine been in it for at least 6 months... 7-8am wake 8am porridge & milk bottle 10am snack 12pm dinner 12.30-2.30 nap 3.30pm snack 5.30pm tea 7pm milk bottle 7.15pm sleep

Prior to about 2 weeks ago she was going down at 8, sleep consultant advised being bedtime forward to 7.15. So we are doing this and have had 3 nights of sleep. This is her norm. You might get 2 a week if lucky but never sleeps consistently. I have no idea why. And the days she does I have no idea why she has or is it just a build up of tiredness that forces it. Wake ups are 11-2am or 1am-4am most recently. 3 hours. We are exhausted and have a 4&6 year old too so up for school runs etc regardless.

Any advice?

@user1471549213 so she's slept through for the last 3 nights? Maybe you've cracked it?

How do you put her to sleep at bedtime and naptime? If she is not totally independently going to sleep (which she should be at this age) this voikd be a reason.

Independant sleep at this age means placed into the cot stood up and that's the only input you have. She should be lying herself down (stop putting her in there lying down, or even sat up). She should be locating her own dummy and putting it on herself. She should be going to sleep in the room alone.

If that is all sorted, my next thought is over tired, as your sleep consultant said. The average 15 month old is still on two naps per day (3 to 4h of daytime sleep). I'd say she needs a much longer lunchtime nap if only on one nap days. I would try an earlier nap, 11.30am, to see if you can get an hour longer at least.

If not that, next suggestion would be the behavioural issues you hit when they learn to pull to standing and don't want to be lied down. It's a battle of wills. The key is to not expect baby to sleep, but expect baby will lie down and stay quiet. Give independence by ensuring baby lies themself down always, don't physically make then get into a lying position.

No not 3 in a row. 3 randomly spaced across the 2 weeks. Makes no sense to me.

She is currently up after going asleep at 7.15.

She goes asleep by herself but I do put her lying jn the cot. Will try start just putting her in and leaving. Im not bothered if she is awake and singing to herself but when she starts screaming the house down then I have to pick her up or risk the other 2 being woken.

Thanks so much @FATE we went for it last night- DP was up most of night cuddling but DS didn't protest quite as much as I had feared he might and had an absolutely enormous BF plus breakfast this morning so the adjustment has begun!

What age is ok to night wean from?

My DS used to sleep through consistently, but now wakes once or twice for feeds then straight back to sleep. Think it's a habit now as you've said and he doesn't eat enough in the day (although we offer constantly). He is combi fed, generally 1 or 2 formula feeds a day (1 usually at night)

He is only 5 months though so perhaps too young to try?

I wouldn’t personally consider night weaning until baby is well established on solids, if you’ve got 1 or 2 brief wake ups that sounds like heaven to me! Their appetites and needs are constantly fluctuating in the first year xx

Yeah I wouldn't do it until they're well established on solids either. Maybe from 7 months or so? But it depends on the baby.

Thanks, I thought at least 6 months. Just frustrating that he was night weaned for weeks and weeks and now just seems to be back in the habit of it.

Hope its going well for you @Miriam101!

My little boy was similar, no night feeds for ages (well could go 10-6) and now feeds multiple times in the night, I’m not going to night wean until he’s one but I am looking forward to it!! We are having to take weaning really slowly because he’s high risk for allergies but I’m hoping once he’s getting more protein and carbs in the day he won’t feed quite so much at night x

@Whiffle77 I can imagine it's frustrating. Thing is their appetites really fluctuate in the early months. I remember both mine being particularly ravenous around 5 months- they're growing fast but not yet on proper food and they just wanted milk milk and more milk! Exhausting. In my experience it doesn't get much easier until they're really chomping on a lot of solids (and by that I mean not just veg and fruit). I'm hoping that's about now for us but who knows?! DS hasn't had any milk at night now for four nights and only woke once last night... We'll see how we go this week. Good luck to you! They will sleep one day!

@Whiffle77

What age is ok to night wean from?

My DS used to sleep through consistently, but now wakes once or twice for feeds then straight back to sleep. Think it's a habit now as you've said and he doesn't eat enough in the day (although we offer constantly). He is combi fed, generally 1 or 2 formula feeds a day (1 usually at night)

He is only 5 months though so perhaps too young to try?

I would night wean @Whiffle77, in fact is have done it a while ago in your case.

Once they can go through without feeding, then you can be confident that any need for a night feed which subsequently arises is a obvious way of telling you about a lack of calories. So while I might do the odd occasional single night feed as a one off, rather than it becoming regular I would instead use it as notification that more daytime calories are needed (a lot more).

If you intend to maintain similar amounts of calorie intake in the daytime, then of course baby will use the increase/decrease of night feeds as a way to manage their fluctuating needs.

But you could instead be more responsive to their calorific need in the daytime, so that none is needed at night. You don't need to expect night feeds (for calorie) as the expected thing.

What you need to remember though is baby is probably already having as much as they can per-sitting (milk now, but with solids too). Their stomach limits that.

The only way to get more calories in is more bottles per day (So feeds closer together)

What age is ok to night wean from?

3 or 4 months, as long as you can work in the extra calories into the daytime and you have a way to comfort back to sleep. That may well mean feeding before baby is hungry, rather than in response to hunger (which some parents don't like).

You frequently get formula fed newborns not feeding 11pm-7pm from about 1 month old and 7pm-7am by 2 months onwards. You just don't hear much about these families because they have nothing to complain about (and it's bad form to be smug about baby sleep)

Awww bless him, I hope you have a reasonably trouble free time with weaning and his allergies @Poppy709. Fingers crossed for more sleep soon!

Thats great news for you @Miriam101! He is definitely constantly hungry at the minute. Hope it continues for you. Sorry for hijacking your thread!!

Thanks for such a detailed response @FATEdestiny. He was EBF and sleeping through (a lot of the time) from around 10 weeks ish. This stopped around a month ago - he needed constant resettling, not just feeds and it was a nightmare. This is when my DH started giving him 1-2 bottles of formula (one day, one in the night) to give me a break. Its calmed down a lot now and he generally does 1-2 wake ups but just for a feed - straight (ish) back to sleep after. We do try and resettle him rather than going straight to feeding but he is insistent, so it is definitely hunger.

The unsettled sleeping coincided with him being really hungry too, so day feeds have increased as well as night and using formula formula. I am trying to increase his calorie intake in the day but it is hard when BF! I dont want to use many more than 2 bottles of formula if poss, and he already feeds at 2.5hour intervals (depending on nap duration). So i have started offering both breasts for most feeds. He normally eats when he wakes up so I suppose I could give extra feeds before naps.

Hopefully weaning will start but that being meaningful calorie wise is probably awhile away.

My DH is off work for a week or so so I guess we have some time to work on it

Update- in case anyone cares- DS slept from 8-6 last night!!! @fate thanks for your advice- much appreciated.

@Miriam101

Update- in case anyone cares- DS slept from 8-6 last night!!! *@fate* thanks for your advice- much appreciated.

Thats brilliant!! Hope it continues for you!

That's wonderful! I've been following. When you say your husband spent a lot of time cuddling, does that mean that they were awake until morning, or did you get spurts of sleep out of them?!

@ohthejoysoftoddler

That's wonderful! I've been following. When you say your husband spent a lot of time cuddling, does that mean that they were awake until morning, or did you get spurts of sleep out of them?!

Actually he said DS slept fairly well- just in his arms/on him. You know, the kind of thing where he was probably just a bit too hungry to settle himself in his cot and stay asleep but not so hungry that he wouldn't sleep/doze with a lot of parental input!