4 month sleep regression - dummy or not??

[Blacksheep33]

We started the 4 month sleep regression at 17 weeks and now (at 21 weeks) there is no sign of any improvement.

Before the regression my LO was sleeping 7pm - 7am with a dream feed at 10 and a night feed at approx 3am

Now he is up every 45 mins - 2 hours after about 9pm.

He’s always been very good settling for bedtime and would settle in his cot on his own with a dummy. Now I’m not sure whether the dummy is doing more harm than good and is contributing to his night waking.

When he wakes during the night he is mostly shuffling around struggling to get back to sleep. Sometimes he will just appear wide awake and other times he will appear sleepy - ill put the dummy in - and he will then calm for a bit but then spit the dummy out (or pull it out by accident) and cry/whinge. The process of putting the dummy back in several times to get him back to sleep can take anywhere from 5 mins to half an hour.

I’ve tried holding him in my arms instead of using the dummy to help get him to sleep and he will often fall asleep straight away only to then wake up as soon as he is put in his cot (no matter how ‘fast asleep’ he appears to be in my arms).

Was wondering if anyone else has any experience of their LO using a dummy and whether they helped or hindered during the 4 month regression? I’ve read contradictory things about babies needing to learn to self settle without a dummy but also keeping things consistent for the regression. The little ones website is also pretty vague about dummies and seems to suggest they can be useful during a regression (but also promote self settling)

We have recently tried using the dummy less and LO can settle off to sleep without the dummy now (he often has a suck of it, spits it out and we don’t replace it. 10 mins later after some tossing and turning he falls asleep)

Thanks!

Was wondering if anyone else has any experience of their LO using a dummy and whether they helped or hindered during the 4 month regression?

I have lots of experience of this. I'm a mum of four and also a sleep consultant.

Dummies are ACE.

Absolutely do not remove it limit dummy use. Anything you replace the dummy with will either
(a) be less conducive to independant sleep. Or
(b) involve significantly more crying and distress (for baby and you).

The dumny is the single best no-crying sleep solution.

But... there are a lot of misconceptions out there about expectations. Dummies are AMAZING, but not a magic wand.

Your dummy is not the reason for frequent waking. It's likely over tiredness from not enough daytime sleep. Also important that baby goes from wide awake to fully asleep in the cot.

Taking a long time to settle (you should expect 5-10 mins) is likely your inconsistent use of the dummy and could also be down to over tiredness and/or method of going to sleep. Going to sleep in your arms is a significant backward step at the four month regression.

In short - keep the dummy.

Thank you SO much for answering this - this is really very helpful. The dummy does seem to really soothe him but I was concerned with some of the things I had read about how a baby cannot truly self soothe with a dummy

In terms of naps, we have one short (45 min) nap about 2 hours after waking, followed by a long nap (2-2.15hr) about 2 hours after that - but this is always taken in the pram as it’s the only way I can get my LO to take a long nap. Then it’s another short 45 min nap about 2 hours after which ends approx 2 hours before bed time.

I will try and adjust the naps and see if that helps! We do manage wide awake to asleep in the cot but I had been trying to limit dummy use which had meant it was taking longer for him to settle so I’ll stop! I do find though that I have to replace the dummy a couple of times before he will go off to sleep

They are good naps, so assuming baby doesn't seem over tired I wouldn't assume it with those nights.

However something is causing frequent night wakes and they key here is getting yo the bottom of what it is. Hunger would be my next suggestion. It's not unusual for calorific need to go up by 25% around 4 months. While stomach size is a limiting factor on the amount of milk per feed, it might be that baby needs more feeds per 24h.

Have you considered feeding baby when he won't settle? I suggest a 10 mins/1 hour rule. So if baby wakes, always take 10 mins of dummy reinsert initially. If not settled after 10 minutes, feed. If baby goes settle after 10mins but then wakes again within the next hour- straight to a feed rather than continually resetting. You could stretch that 1h to 90 mins or 2h.

A bedside cot makes this dummy reinsert phase easier. As does having loads of dumnmys to hand. What I did was sew a ribbon onto the sleeping bag with a press stud at the end to attach a dummy to. Ribbon no longer than to reach babys ear (So cannot go around neck). With a bedside cot, this meant I could reach over, locate dummy and reinsert it all without opening my eyes and bearly waking up. This is just a phase.

By about 7-9 months babies can usually do their own dummies. But the idea really is you teach baby to sleep deeply so they don't wake/stir at all between sleep cycles. So the dummy is used for 10 mins when going to sleep and that is all.

The only purpose of dummy is in going to sleep. Once in a deep sleep then muscles relax, including the jaw, so dumny drops. It's meant to, it has served it's purpose and baby is now in a deep sleep. If reinsert are needed initially, that means baby is in the light sleep phase. If baby subsequently wakes up, that's nothing to do with the dummy. What the dummy will do is make going back to sleep easier. Solving frequent wakes means finding the reason for not maintaining a deep sleep and dummy is a red herring since it plays no part whatsoever in deep sleeping.

Your baby will need some way to feel comforted to sleep until about 3 years old. Stop overtaking it.

Thanks for this, this makes so much sense when set out like this.

I had assumed it wasn’t hunger because I dream feed him around 10 (although recently he’s been waking before this, perhaps pre-empting the feed) and he doesn’t take very much at that (bottle) feed

However I think I had just assumed because he had previously dropped his multiple night feeds that he wouldn’t be hungry during the night but actually he does seem hungrier than usual during the day and the close wake up times at night could be because I haven’t satisfied his hunger - I will try offering feeds if he wakes within an hour of re-settling as you suggest.

Thanks again for this - it really is so helpful to have someone else give some pointers. I think I had become too blinded by all of the things I had read suggesting that the dummy was interfering with his sleep and was a bad habit!

Your baby's calorific need will always accelerate. So she will need more calories next month than she does now, and so on. The leap that happens at 4 months though is significant and results in a big jump in the calories needed.

The way to avoid night feeds is to have more bottles per day in the daytime. Because you can't always get baby to have more milk per feed (stomach volume is limiting). If you don't increase daytime feeds, you will see in increase in night feeds, no question.

My youngest was a 91st centile chuck, so needed a lot. By 16 weeks I'd stopped night feeds* But to enable that she was having 2 hourly daytime feeds - 8 bottles a day. 7am 9am 11am 1pm 3pm 5pm 7pm 8.30pm and then bed.

• while I stopped night feeds that by no means meant sleeping through. It's just all night wakes involved a dummy reinsert not a feed.

Sorry to disagree with the above but from recent experience (and I appreciate what works for us might not work for you) removing the dummy absolutely solved our sleep problems during the four month regression. We realised we were getting up multiple times a night to replug the dummy, so as soon as we weaned our baby off it he slept much better. For us it had become a sleep crutch, so although it was useful for initial settling, he had become reliant on it to move through sleep cycles and once we took it away he adapted surprisingly quickly to settling himself.

@trufflepuff50 just embarking on this with my 4mo daughter. She cries and cries without it and last night took an hour to settle. I will never leave her to cry so I’m constantly shushing and stroking but every time I put her back down in the crib she slept fine in with a dummy, she gets so upset. How long did it take your LO to get used to it? feel like we’re going backwards and ending up rocking to sleep so she’s not learning to go to sleep from awake anyway. I don’t know what the right thing is!!!

Also just stumbled across this thread, desperately looking for advice for an almost 5m old.

Was sleeping great, 7-30-7 with the odd waking which would be settled in seconds with a dummy re-insert.
Now it's every hour, he's waking up trying to chew his hands... which isn't soothing him - it just keeps him awake. I pop his dummy back in but he just spits it back out and tried to chew his hands again.

We routinely go through this a few times each hour before he falls back asleep. We are also back to doing a night feed as after however many hours of doing this he's woke up so much that he's hungry in the night. Prior to this he stopped feeding in the night at about 3mo.

Please help, despite the chewing I don't think the issue is teething - I think he can't connect his sleep cycles and would love some advice on trying to help this.

Just opened this thread to say something along the lines of Dummies are ACE. I see I already said that 12 months ago.

NovemberBubbles - sounds like your baby needs a night feed or two. If baby doesn't take the number of calories they need during the daytime, they'll need a night feed.

At 3 months it's easier for baby to get 100% of their calories in daylight hours. At 6 months baby needs loads more and it's harder work to get all those calories into baby during waking hours.

Hi @FATEdestiny thanks for coming back onto this thread. After 2 days we went with your advice and still consistently offer the dummy for all naps and sleep. I now know I will not ‘sleep train’ as I found it unbearable being the cause of upset to my baby. She is waking multiple times in the night and back to feeding more often too (about 3 times rather than once) and what you said about calorific need makes sense! I am not sure how we stop rocking her to sleep though. We have tried fully awake and the fabled ‘drowsy but awake’ but she just cannot settle. (This is in a bedside crib btw, I can’t see the point in her going in her own room while I am breastfeeding.) Even when we know she is tired and we’ve followed an appropriate wake window and looked for cues, she either wakes right up chatting and squirming, or cries. I’m feeling the pressure to teach her this good habit. Is there a point it becomes easier for them to do this? Or is is too late? Thank you!!!

I am not sure how we stop rocking her to sleep though.

In terms of the pressure you feel to solve this, reframe that pressure so that you realise you will make progress towards baby going to sleep in the cot. Because if you have expectations that someone will be able to give you a set of instructions to follow and Just Like That baby will go from awake to asleep in the cot - you are setting yourself up to fail. It doesn't work like that.

(Well, unless you just leave your baby to scream. But I'd judge you if you considered doing that to a 4 month old).

Tips and suggestions:

(1) Move all daytime naps to the bouncer.

You can then teach independent settling but still allowing for movement. After around 1h awake, park yourself on the sofa with baby in bouncer at your feet. Use your foot to rhythmically bounce (while you watch tv), reinserting dummy as needed.

Just keep going until babys mouth goes slack and dummy drops. Then slow and stop the movement. Restart movement and reinsert dummy at first sign if stirring awake, to try to lengthen the nap

You are teaching baby to sleep independently of you by doing this.

(2) Kerp the swaddle going and have a bedside cot

At night baby is going to sleep in a stationary cot. So it's harder work to get independent sleep. Accept that it's harder work, rather than getting frustrated that it's not an easy task.

Keeping swaddle use going through this phase is very helpful. It assists in calming and soothing babys thrashing limbs. But if you didn't established swaddle use consistently as a newborn, it's unsafe to introduce it now.

Bedside cot also makes life easier. Reduces you getting frustrated at having to lean over cot sides to settle baby, you can just shuffle across your bed. Again, not a magic wand to 'solve the problrm', just makes life easy as you work towards independent sleep

(3) Active dummy sucking, not passively in mouth

It's impossible to cry while simultaneously sucking. Impossible. So if you can get baby actively sucking, baby will not cry.

When giving baby dummy, every time get baby to reach for dummy actively. Do this by tickling cheek/upper lip with teat. Babys mouth will reach towards the touch. Point dummy upwards to roof of mouth when putting in. This triggers sucking.

Once in, tapping on the outside of the dummy encourages the suckibg reflex.

If after all this, baby is still crying (therefore not sucking) remove dummy and start again. Take dummy out, tickle cheek/lip and get baby to actively reach for it. Keep repeating this process until baby is actively sucking.

(4) Dummy is not meant to be used once asleep.

As baby settles, sucking movements will become less and less frequent. Don't tap dummy to keep active sucking going at this point, you'll stop baby entering deep sleep.

After a short while (5-10 mins from eyes closing) sucking will slow to stop. Mouth muscles go slack and dummy should fall out. This is baby in a deep sleep - dummy has done is job and is no longer needed until baby next wakes and needs help to ho back to sleep.

Dummy not being in babys mouth during sleep is correct and normal.

(5) Dummy resettled are normal and ok

It follows that baby will need you to put dummy on to resettle if they wake. Chances are baby will need a feed when waking, but you might be able to resettle with a dummy only.

Huge numbers of parents perceive dummy resettled as a massive problem. Thinking Tge Grass Is Greener - "if I didn't use a dummy I wouldn't be doing dummy reinsert". No - instead you'd be rocking or feeding to sleep- both far more hard work.

So accept dummy resettles will be needed for a few months. Make life easy to manage this. With a sidecar cot and multiple dummies to hand - you can master the art of dummy retrieval, reinsert, reassuring hand on babys chest to resettle - all without opening your eyes, moving from your bed or properly waking.

As babys sleep matures they can learn to link sleep cycles more effectively - so without needing and external assistance. Then you won't need to do dummy reinserts. You need to be patient and accept this is a process if learning.

Plus by about 8 ish months baby will have the dexterity to do own dummy inserts. If you were rocking/cuddling/feeding to sleep instead of using a dummy for independent sleep, by 8 months old youd be nowhere close to independent sleep. With dummy use you may well be there by that age.

Dummies are amazing. They are not instant-fix solution though. It's still a (frustrating) process you and baby have to go through.

Hi @FATEdestiny thank you for taking the time to respond. Currently she has naps in the cot in her own bedroom (3 naps in that, 2 in the pram as she only naps for one sleep cycle at the moment) so I’m not sure if going back to the bouncy chair she napped in as a newborn feels like a backwards step. I understand the reasoning though.

We never swaddled her so unfortunately not an option as you point out, though I didn’t mention that she keeps herself awake by pawing at her own face and knocking the dummy out. However relaxed we think she is, arms slowly flopping down to her sides, more often than not she brings them straight back up to her face. It’s like we never got her sleepy in the first place! Times like that I wish you could swaddle for ever!! I find myself very gently pinning one arm down to reduce the flapping and that’s the only way she goes back to sleep. It can take 45 mins though.

Thanks for clarifying that dummy resettles are normal. I would be so happy if it was a case of just popping it back in but she’s WIDE awake, spits it back out, flapping around and at 11pm, 1am, 3am, 5am etc we just want to get her and ourselves back to sleep ASAP so we end up rocking.

I’ve talked myself in a circle here really. I think I want to hear something that’s just not fact…! That it just takes time for babies to learn to resettle in the night and parental input isn’t a massive habit former!! Thanks again x

All my children had dummies. As babies become more mobile and active they can lose their dummy in the night. We solved that by keeping several dummies in the cot so they were more likely to find one.

The flapping around is the whole reason for keeping the swaddle at this age - it's fairly normal behaviour.

Since you aren't swaddling, I'd get used to holding babys two hands in one of yours until shes in a deep sleep (when dummy drops).

You have to physically help baby to be still and calm. Physically hold babys arms/legs still (no different to when baby is in a cradle hold you are restricting babys movements by holding).

When baby is frustrated and unhappy, they have no way of showing this apart from crying and flapping around. But you, as a rational adult, know that crying and thrashing will make baby more frustrated and unhappy, not less. Baby is not capable of being rational, so you have to make those decisions for baby - the need to be physically still and quiet in order to relax and so go to sleep.

When baby is in the cot, have babys hands in one of yours, resting on babys torso. The other hand curled around babys head, on dummy duty. Be still and quiet yourself. Just wait. Keep babys arms still. Keep active sucking going repeatedly. And wait.

Thank you for your help again and for being really specific too! I appreciate it very much.

@FATEdestiny do you do any consulting by any chance? I love your advice in this thread 💕