Help - don't know what to do?

[sweetkitty]

DD is 14 weeks and is terrible to try and get to sleep. Our day is as follows:

7am DD wakes has bf falls back asleep until 9-10am another bf then we have about 2 good hours playing etc when she gets tired she screams and only walking/standing will calm her

she then will fall asleep on you but if we try and put her down she wakes and cries

the day is an endless cycle of this she will sometimes fall asleep on the breast and can stay asleep for a few hours but not very often

I've tried getting her into a routine of bath, massage, feed but this doesn't work either she's usually up with us until 12 when she'll have a final bf then sleep until 7 am which is good I know.

I hate this crying because she's tired but I can't comfort her putting her down awake is a complete no no. Also she hates her crib and sleeps with us. She's a great feeder and a good baby apart from this. I know I have started all wrong, anyone got any ideas?

have you tried putting her down to sleep no longer than 2 hours after the last time she woke up? sometimes when it's longer than that i think they get overtired and can't get to sleep. the 2 hours thing really really helped us, even when ds doesn't seem that sleepy now, if i put him down 2 hours after he wakes for his morning nap he generally goes down really well and he's a year old!

have you tried putting her down on her own (in her crib...when she isn't overtired) and seeing if she falls asleep after a couple of minutes?...i know you probably have, but i thought it was worth asking as with ds i think we used to pick him straight up too soon without giving him a chance to fall asleep on his own...i really think that she might be overtired sk, how much sleep in total do you think she might be getting per day? i think at this age they reckon (but what do they know, but good as a rough guideline?) around 15-16 hours (i'm sure someone else will be able to confirm this, i'm doing it from memory)...

i'm so sorry you're having a nightmare, it's awful i know, but regardless of what happens or what you do or don't do, it really will get better, i promise!

lots of other mners will have brilliant advice for you...

How long does she sleep for, Skitty? Not sure if you expect she needs 2 hours or what. I ask because DS2 only sleeps 30-40minutes at a time, but typically at 14 weeks (only a month ago) he needed a sleep every 2 hours or so. To get him to sleep I'd swaddle him up tight & bounce him in his bouncy seat, or sometimes leave him to cry in his cot... 10 minutes? Then come back, hold his arms down until he was still & finally let himself drift off.

sorry, just re-read your first post sk and you know that she is overtired...sorry sorry...

Poor you, we had this with dd and it drove me mad. Two things really helped, and i don't know which one/or both was the answer. Firstly we started to feed her more frequently into the evening time (I was breastfeeding too and this was hard, but she did seem hungrier at this time of day), we also started a bedtime routine and put her down in her cot by 7.30/8pm at the latest. She would cry for a few minutes for the first few days, then fall asleep. When she woke up crying we would settle her upstairs and we've never brought her downstairs with us in the evening since if she wakes. I suppose before we even did this I had to work quite hard to get her used to settling herself for her daytime naps (ie. leaving her to grumble/cry for 5 minutes or so) no rocking, no falling asleep on the boob. Now she loves her cot and sleep has not been a problem since. It was hard work at first but i firmly believe she needed to learn that she could sleep and was safe on her own. However, this is a 'routines' method, and I don't know if you're more into an attachment style model in which case I'm sure others can give better/more helpful advice. It sounds like she's doing great and I'm sure she'll get the sleep sorted soon, HTH,

it sounds like she is getting overtired (and hence not sleeping well when she does fall asleep) - at that age mine often only managed an hour awake, at most 2. And they tended to get tired very quickly if there was a lot of stimulation. We had to learn to pick up the subtle signs - by the time they got to rubbing their eyes and yawning it was too late. (Before we figured this out the only thing that would calm DS1 was Status Quo played very loudly !)

Try putting her in her cot maybe 15 minutes before you think she will be tired.

Thanks for your suggestions so far today we put her in her crib at 12 as she was getting grumpy, she cried for about half an hour (never left her but didn't pick her up) she kind of dosed for 10 minutes then woke up and giggled and "talked" for the next 30 mins. She was "eating" everything in site so I changed and fed her and she went straight to sleep until I woke her at 5.30pm.

Going to try bath, massage, feed, quiet time, crib again tonight - wish me luck.

I know I shouldn't whinge I have a baby that sleeps for 7 hours straight through the night and I have a lay in until 10 if I want to. It's just getting her to sleep thats the problem!

tonight went like this bath, massage, feed, bed at 8pm

cried for an hour until 9 then played in crib until 10.30pm

had a change and feed, fell asleep so i put her in her crib where she fell asleep until 11.05pm

she is now awake sitting on my lap and i've run out of ideas did everything i was supposed to, dark quiet room, going in reassuring her, even tried a dummy

Sweetkitty, does she only seem to fall asleep on the breast, and is it when you try to put her down, even if she's asleep that she wakes up and starts yelling?

Sweetkitty , I really do empathise with you as my DD who is now 14 months was the same and it lasted for pretty much 4 months until I decided that I could not carry on much longer , She used to have to be rocked to sleep or breastfed to sleep 3 - 4 times in the night.

So, I became brutal and did some sleep training on her and I was amazed at how easy it was and how much happier DD, myself and DH was.

It is all about sleep association and your DD associates falling asleep with you standing and walking and breastfeeding. Thus, when she wakes she wants that again otherwise she gets confused and scared and probably angry. There are many different books you can read on this matter, all of them do make sense, it just depends on how you want to approach the matter.

It is worth being brave and trying as you sound as if it is dragging you down and it is not pleasant being tired and angry and desperate .

You will realise that most Mums have been through this and be reassured to know that like Sophable says ... it really really does get better !

She seems to be sleeping a LOT during the day - ie from 7am until 10am and then 1ish until 5.30pm. I think if she is sleeping like this during the day, then this might be why she is sleeping less at night - or at least going to sleep late - her sleep cycle seems to be midnight until 10am with one waking for food (which actually is pretty good IMO for 14weeks!). I think what you want is for her to sleep her ten hour stretch (equivalent to midnight to 10am) at, say, 8pm until 6am with a feed at 11pm. I think this would mean tackling the daytime sleep first, and trying to keep her awake a bit longer at 7am, ideally for two hours, then a nap of about an hour, and then back to sleep at lunchtime for a couple of hours, then another shortish nap in the pm (very Gina Ford, sorry!). That way you cut her daytime sleep a little and shift her sleep cycle. But as Sophable says, even if you do nothing, she is already showing you she is capable of decent stretches of sleep so things will improve anyway. I know what it's like to want your evenings back though. And yes, she sounds overtired. If you want the same routine but with less overtired crying, I would recommend putting her to bed before she seems tired - ie after 1hour45mins, not two hours, and letting her cry a little. At that age (or later, it all blurs so much with time!), my ds seemed to need a very short cry in order to settle himself to sleep. I'd put him down then go downstairs, into the kitchen, put the radio and the kettle on and make a cup of tea 9 times out of 10 he'd be asleep by the time the tea was made. Good luck!

I recommend Richard Ferber's book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems too. My son was a nightmare! 8months of horrible nights (would have killed for a seven hour stretch of sleep, really). But it is interesting even if you don't feel ready to put it into action yet.
Slightly dreading new baby from the sleep point of view. Dh even more so as he's had two horrible sleepers so far!

aloha, maybe you'll find the old saying "you don't get 2 (or 3!)the same comes true for you .
Good luck with the new baby and I hope he/she sleeps like a log!!

Many sympathies, remember these problems well, especially around the 14 week stage when they start needing more food.

Just my opinion, but do you think it could be hunger rather than being over tired? Both my DDs started doing this around 14 weeks, and I took it as a sign they were ready for solids/more milk. When intake was increased they settled down again.

I also agree with what some of the others have said about settling them down on their own. The amount of friends I have whose kids don't sleep because they have never been left to get off on their own is unbelievable. Babies need space too. Sounds like you've been trying this anyway.

For what its worth i did always put mine "to bed" at 7pm regardless of whether they were due to wake for more feeds in the evening. They would be fed in the darkness in their room, and i didn't bring them downstairs to be with us unless circumstances were very extreme!

Good luck.

sweetkitty when my DS3 (three months old today!) gets overtired, I find that putting him in his cot with a sheet tucked quite tightly over him, turning out the light and putting on some "white noise" such as the hairdryer or the hoover is the best way to get him to unwind and sleep.

thanks again everyone I know I shouldn't complain as I do get enough sleep, she went down at 12.30 last night without a feed she just fussed for a bit and went off herself until 6 this morning where she had a feed and that was her until 10 to 9.

Things are complicated right now by us trying to sell our house and that she doesn't have her own room yet. I am hoping that the combination of a new room/cotbed and being about 6 months old might help otherwise it will be CC for us.

Theres some really good advice on here so I will save it for later.

hi sievehead - my DS is 15 weeks old and until 3 weeks ago was sleeping like a dream - i now have him waking twice a night starving and the wakings are getting earlier and earlier, sometimes only 2 hours after i put him down. loads of people have told me to hold off solids, but am heartened to hear yours settled down after you started them. may try a bit of the old baby rice soon then in the hope of getting a decent nights shut eye!

my 14 week old can't get off to sleep on her own either. have tried the pick up put down thing to no avail can never stop crying long enough to go down.
have resorted to expressing a bottle to give her at night. I put her in the cot with the bottle lights off and she usually falls asleep 9/10 times. its probably not the best method but less stress and demon child in the evenings. though must have a growth spurt as wants more bf draining me dry at the moment.

Our dd was a nightmare to get to sleep too until, like Dinosaur, we discovered white noise. At first we used to leave an electric toothbrush going in her room, and occasionally an electric razor! But we soon got fed up with batteries running out, until we discovered that you can buy tapes / CDs that just play white noise - these are specifically designed to calm babies and get them off to sleep. You can buy them from mail orders catalogues like JoJo / Blooming Marvellous. We had a CD that worked an absolute treat, so I really would recommend you give this a try. We stopped using the CD when dd was about 1. She's now 2.5yrs and sleeps just fine.

Emz31 - it wasn't just a coincidence with mine either as the same thing happened with both of them! I don't really understand why people would say hold off on solids when they are clearly just hungry. I know there is some new directive which says something about not giving solids until 6 months - but I'm sure with gentle introduction of baby rice/cereal its going to help a hungry baby thrive, and sleep better too resulting in a more sane mummy. Sorry to get on my soapbox about this but I'm sick of hearing these rules we are supposed to follow when every mum and baby is an individual with individual needs! I feel better now! Good luck and I hope you start getting more sleep!!!

It's not a new directive! The WHO have been saying it for over 10 years. Babies go through growth spurts which settle down. Baby rice is not more filling than milk. Solids are just not necessary and can cause health problems in later life if introduced too early before around six months.

The babies gut is not ready until around six months to manage solids. there are also lots of other reasons. I'll find the info.

here

Solids never made mine sleep better (IF ONLY, I wish they had!). I fed DS things like sausage fat at 17 weeks, too.
One study reckoned that risk of asthma goes up by 3x if you start solids before 15 wks, btw.

ok so its not a new directive, i stand utterly corrected. However, 5 years ago and then 2 years ago, it was said that 4 months was the correct time to introduce solids. Only saying what I was told.

My babies' guts seemed to cope perfectly well with solids. They have no allergies (so far). I just cannot agree with a general view that it is best to leave it until 6 months. Try telling that to parents of a grisly and starving hungry baby who is quite obviously "ready" for solids.

I had a very big hungry baby who I started on solids at 17 weeks (under advise of health visitor and loads of books which said wean at 4 months........hadnt heard f the 6 month thing back then and believe me, I read lots!)

It made NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to his sleep