7 month old waking every 30 min after bedtime

[meltybuttons]

I'm at a loss what to do.

I've tried controlled crying - he cried for two hours last night and still had more left in him, by that point I was losing the will to live anyway.

I've tried going up and re settling every time he wakes up. This works some of the time, but he often wakes up 5 min after putting him down again. He may give us a couple of hours here and there. Thing is, I can't keep doing this - it's unsustainable as he is very heavy, and I rock to sleep. Plus my evening is mostly spent going up and down the stairs tending to him. My OH helps.

Somewhere between 12 and 1 he will eventually sleep, sometimes after a bottle, sometimes not. Wake up 6/7.

Bedtime routine is brush teeth, in cot with lullaby and story, bottle then a rock to bed. Bedtime varies on what time he woke up from last nap but it's normally a good 2.5-3 hours after last nap. He goes down easily enough. Formula fed. Naps are good, two or three times a day depending on what time he woke up and how long he has, he often does 1.5/2 hours a go. Weaning and feeding well.

I'm going to try waiting a good 10 minutes after he starts crying and see if he re settles but if controlled crying didn't work I don't see how this can.

Please help?!

How much total day sleep is he having? Could he possibly be having too much and that's why he's not tired enough to fall into a deep sleep until late? Have a look at the possums approach or Georgina may baby sleep revolution, she has a free video talking about sleep pressure and how too much day sleep can cause problems at night. Xx

If he's not tired, I would just keep him up with you unless you need him to be asleep early for some reason?

I think we focus too much in the UK on early bedtimes for children but when they're that young it's just not necessary and causes lots of parents undue stress!

@sunflowersandbuttercups

If he's not tired, I would just keep him up with you unless you need him to be asleep early for some reason?

I think we focus too much in the UK on early bedtimes for children but when they're that young it's just not necessary and causes lots of parents undue stress!

I agree. I kept mine up with me, he went to sleep when he wanted to. He also came into bed with us for a long time.

Thanks for the replies!

He is having between 2.5-3.5 hours of naps in the daytime, which most books/websites say is about right for his age. He is 7.5 months and in the process of dropping his third nap but it's taking a while.

I think he is tired when he wakes up after bedtime. Not long ago (5/6 weeks ago) we were still letting him sleep on us downstairs of an evening, then when we went to bed we put him to bed with a bottle and he slept like a dream. Since getting him to sleep in his own cot at bedtime it's affected his sleep. So that first part of the evening he is tired and wants to sleep but maybe wants to sleep on one of us and hasn't gotten used to being by himself yet?!

His bedtime isn't that early, it's anywhere between 7:45-9pm. Putting him down later doesn't help his sleep at all!

I will give waking him up and taking him down with us a try though, I'm willing to try anything at this point!

Normally this type of waking is due to overtiredness, hunger, being too cold or reliance on a sleep crutch.
You definitely have reliance on a sleep crutch which is the rocking to sleep. If you're happy to continue doing that then you'll need to do it at every waking. Otherwise you will need to stop it completely and never do it. Halfway measures never work and you end up with a very cross and confused baby.
Is he on solids now? And what times are the naps and what time does he go down for the night?

Your daytime rep is fine, don't reduce it.

The key issue is rocking to sleep. That is what is causing your problems here.

It becomes increasingly important post-4m that baby goes to sleep where they stay asleep. So anything that involves putting down an already asleep (or nearly asleep) baby is not going to cut-it long term.

Baby needs to learn to go from being in a fully awake state to a fully asleep state all done within the cot, then not being moved once asleep.

How to do that - well there are a million different ways (It's what the sleep consultant business is based around) but every single method is based on exactly the same premise - to get baby to sleep in a stationary cot, every time.

If it was me, is stay with baby. Bend low over the cot so your face is close to baby. Firm hand on chest and other a reassuring cup around head. Part with hand if needed. Shush if needed. But still and quiet when calm (staying bent close with hand on chest tho).

If very upset, lift and comfort But then put back down and continue trying yo comfort baby while in the cot.

Yes, baby will cry. If you don't use a dummy baby will cry because crying is how babies express being unhappy and bring tired is an unhappy state for baby. So expect crying (unless you use a dummy- it's impossible to cry while simultaneously sucking).

Hello LapinR0se, long time no see. I hope you are well.

@LapinR0se

Normally this type of waking is due to overtiredness, hunger, being too cold or reliance on a sleep crutch. You definitely have reliance on a sleep crutch which is the rocking to sleep. If you're happy to continue doing that then you'll need to do it at every waking. Otherwise you will need to stop it completely and never do it. Halfway measures never work and you end up with a very cross and confused baby. Is he on solids now? And what times are the naps and what time does he go down for the night?

Yes I totally agree. I tried not doing it last night, going in and doing the sshh and pat routine and walking out, walking in etc. He got more and more upset and hysterical, I held out for two hours but I just couldn't do it anymore. He didn't even seem to register I was there comforting him.

How do I stop him from relying on it? Because he links his sleep cycles for naps and in the middle of the night, he just doesn't want to do it for the first part of the evening. I rock him to sleep for naps as well but put him down half awake. How do I get him to sleep without ever rocking him??

He wakes up between 6/7, first nap between 8/9. He may have 30 min, but he may have a 2 hour nap so the next nap changes all the time but it's generally 3-3.5 hours after waking.

Hence why he sometimes has a third nap and sometimes he doesn't, it's all dependent on previous naps and wake time.

Thanks @FATEdestiny, that's a really good tip.

I always thought I couldn't pick the baby up, ever - if doing controlled crying. And me standing there and having a hand in his chest was not helping him at all, made him more angry if anything.

I honestly don't have a clue how to get him to sleep form being wide awake without rocking. I have tried putting him down when it's nap/bedtime and playing him his lullabies and shushing/firm hand on chest but he does not like it and gets very upset. I always wait till he is properly tired as well, yawning and rubbing eyes.

The thing is with bedtime as well - he is always super hyper in the evening and gets over stimulated easily, and as his naps go on during the day he gets harder and harder to settle. So bedtime is the worst, he isn't calm or sleepy but a bit manic. He may be overtired but at this point I have no clue.

He has slept in the same cot since he was about 5 months and has always slept fine in it. I moved him to his own room at 6.5 months.

What I described isn't controlled crying. It's probably closer to gradual withdrawal. CC means leaving the room for set amounts of time.

Being hyper is likely to be due to being increasingly over tired as the day progresses. It's always tricky to get the balance right at this stage when dropping the 3rd nap.

I'd be inclined to bite the bullet and just drop that last nap permanently. It will allow you to routine your day more by the clock, rather than according to naps.

A good rule for timing 2-nap days is 234. So 2h awake time between waking up and the morning nap, then 3h awake time between am and pm nap, and 4h awake time to bedtime.

Use this as a way to inform your own routine, rather than as gospel. So you might set a 9am and 2pm nap times. Or 9.30am and 1.30pm - whatever works for you.

As for crying - yes, baby will cry upon going to sleep. Baby is upset because he is tired and frustrated because he can't get to sleep. The way babies express being upset is by crying, so it's to be expected. Personally, I would stay and comfort baby through that upset. Others prefer to leave baby alone. But whichever you do, you'll get crying. So don't use the fact baby is crying as a reason to decide that a method isn't working.

Thanks @FATEdestiny, that is very useful advice. Exactly why I asked Mumsnet! Really appreciate all comments and advice

Hi @LapinR0se Sorry to jump on this thread’s bandwagon but you once mentioned to someone you would PM the name of a very good sleep consultant. You wouldn’t happen to still have their details would you and if yes, be able to send them to me?

@meltybuttons how's it going?

[quote jemimafuddleduck]@meltybuttons how's it going? [/quote]
Funny you should ask!! How things have changed. He is like a different baby. I suspect he was developmentally ready to sleep by himself anyway, and when I gave him that space to do so he did it relatively easily.

We have stopped rocking to sleep completely. If we have to pick him up, which is rare now, we don't move but just hold him still and when calm he is put down straight away. I have graduated from rocking for naps, to holding still, and now I simply put him in his cot with a kiss and leave, and he goes off by himself (most of the time). It helps that he is now on two naps rather than three, he seems to know when it's time to sleep.

Bedtime is story, bottle, put him down and leave straight away. I think in 1 month he's only objected to this twice.

When he wakes in the night I lean over into the cot with my whole body and he is soothed pretty much straight away (although if he wakes close to wake time, say 5:30, then it takes a long time to get back to sleep and by the time he does it's wake time anyway). I never pick him up, my OH does sometimes but only because he finds it difficult to lean over the cot.

He still has off days/moments, today he cried buckets because I think I put him down for his nap a bit too early. He will still randomly wake in the night even though he doesn't have any more night time bottles, but this is happening less and less.

But honestly the difference is amazing and we have our evenings to ourselves, which makes a huge difference. It was @FATEdestiny's advice which I took and then built on that. I was going to try controlled crying but didn't need to in the end, he responded so well to the gentler methods above.

@meltybuttons that's great news! Did it take long for him to get used to?

@jemimafuddleduck he settled well the first time I tried it and just got better from there. I remember he giggled when I leaned over him for the first time (he'd been inconsolable a second previously!) and tried to lick my sleeve, so maybe I just have a strange one.