4 month old - constant face rubbing!!

[MM321]

Any advice welcomed, I’m just about at my wits end 😓

DS is 19 weeks old. Most nights he is SO restless 😓 doesn’t necessarily wake up but will thrash about rubbing his eyes and forehead every 15 mins or so during the night. Occasionally he’ll stop and sleep nice and still for a couple of hours but not very often! The majority of the time he settles himself back down but sometimes needs me to give him a dummy or just rub his cheek or belly and he goes back off to sleep for the next 15 mins 😴

I’m a ridiculously light sleeper and he’s keeping me awake the majority of the night 😓 if I get 2 hours of broken sleep a night then I’m doing well and I’m starting to really struggle 😴😓

His daytime sleep isn’t too bad. He does 3 naps a day (morning 1-1.5h, lunch 1-2h, afternoon 1-1.5h) and usually contact naps for 2 and sleeps in his pram during our walk for 1 of them. Wake windows are around 1.5-2h. Bedtime routine starts at 6.15 - bath, massage, then either feed or 15/20 mins on his mat and then feed depending how tired he is, book(s), bed. Is always asleep by 7.30/8pm. Dream feed at 10.30-11pm then he will either wake to feed at 3.30ish then back down until 7am or he’ll just sleep through until 7. I don’t think the rubbing is being caused by being overtired.

He does have silent reflux but we’re now on reflux milk and he’s doing loads better 😊 No skin issues as far as I know. Certainly looks all clear!

Any ideas what could be causing it? 😓 many more nights like this and I’m going to be on the floor 😴😴

(Also, about DH pulling his weight - he does when he’s home but works offshore for 3/4 weeks at a time so it’s just me during that time. We have no local support bubble so handing baby over to family and napping during the day isn’t an option 😅)

Could be teething. It's often worse at night as they aren't distracted like they are in the daytime. Sometimes it's not that their teeth are ready to come through but they are still moving in their gums which is uncomfortable.

@stopchewingeverything he’s definitely been teething on and off for the last 7 weeks or so but has been face rubbing even before that 😓

Op did you ask your gp or whoever looks after your baby health at the moment (sorry not sure what they are called these days.. my youngest is now 12..)
I don't think teething will make him that unreasonable and for such a long time. Did you say he does it daily? Just when he's a sleep? Does he cry at the same time? Seems happy during the day/awake time? I think you need to get it checked.

Try not to stress yourself, the lack of sleep makes it difficult to think straight, but it will not be like this forever, every few weeks, even days at this stage there is a change. Take it day by day and you will do great. Good luck

@selectabo have mentioned it to both GP and health visitor and neither seems concerned at all! They say he must just be a fidgety sleeper! He doesn’t cry while doing it at all. On the rare occasion that he completely wakes himself up doing it he will have start to fuss a little bit but calms down immediately with a hand on his cheek or giving him his dummy. He doesn’t do it during the day or during his daytime naps, only at night 🤷🏻‍♀️
When he’s awake he’s bright, happy and content. Feeding well, plenty of wet/dirty nappies, meeting all milestones so far and no known health concerns apart from the silent reflux which is being managed 🤷🏻‍♀️
It seems to be affecting me much more than it affects him 😅😅

4 months is when some of his immunity he acquired from you starts to wear off. I am going to guess he is feeling itchy and then is why he is rubbing his face. Some common culprits are dust mites, wool (including lanolin in moisturizers) detergents and softners and soaps.

If his face starts with red patches and in extreme cases has little spider veins and maybe cracked places, its definitely an allergy rash. You should also check the creases in wrists, ankles knees and behind the ears for cracked red skin. The silent reflux might actually be a milk sensitivity

What you describe is what our son started going through at 4m.

I’d check out if you’ve got any of the symptoms sea mentions in the next few days/weeks. It can also be worse at night because the cortisol produced during the day acts as an anti inflammatory so suppressing most of the ‘reaction’ when that reduces ready for night time sleep and is replaced with melatonin the reaction starts.

@SeaToSki that was my first thought too! Would a milk sensitivity not have other symptoms though? 🤔 his dirty nappies seem normal - he was EBF until 3 months when we transitioned to formula and now onto reflux formula and his nappies have changed accordingly from BF to FF consistency. There are absolutely no marks or rashes on his skin at all. I do bath him every night but have always used the same products and I only use products every second night on him. Washing detergent has been the same since birth.

I’m just at a loss 😓

@FTEngineerM Oh that’s interesting 🤔 I’ll keep an eye on him but definitely no symptoms so far!
Can I ask what it turned out to be with your DS? Was it a milk allergy?

My son did this too and I would wake up in the morning and he would look like he had been attacked by a cat.. scratched himself all over his scalp.. I wondered if it was something to do with hair growth.. but to this day still do not know what it was.. safe to say there is a light at the end of the tunnel as it never happens anymore but when it was happening it was so hard because I didn’t know how to help him.

@Peachee Yeah, I have to cut his nails every couple of days and he wears babygrows with fold over mitts on to bed 😓 he pulls other mitts off and can now get out of the fold over ones so he wakes up most days looking like Harry potter 😓

Yes, it was actually a really long ordeal that eventually @SeaToSki helped with under a different username on here.

Our DC started thrashing around with no other symptoms at 4m, it became quite irritating because he’d take about an hour to go back to sleep after waking for a breastfeed, not crying but thrashing like you describe. I was hanging, as you sound.

Then red dry patches appeared on his face a few weeks later, GP said baby eczema gave us steroid. Returned as soon as we finished the course. So we repeated this cycle of GP > Steroid > cleared > returned a day after stopping steroid 5 times. The 6th I didn’t even pick up the prescription they gave me.

Night time thrashing turned into scratching his face until he bled every night, crying and taking 4 odd hours to get him to sleep at night. We had to hold cold flannels over the hot spots to help him get to sleep.

By 7.5m I was still EBF and dairy and soy free but DC was just getting worse (with obvious flare ups on top of he digested dairy/soy). DCs face started leaking clear fluid and we hadn’t slept more than 1 hour for 3.5 months.

sea mentioned hydrolysed formula I switched and got a sleep consultant to help us with a decent routine. Within 2 days he’d slept through, skin had cleared up and our lives are immeasurably different ever since. He’s 9m today 🥳 and just has tiny eczema patches because he does have eczema but we manage that with normal double base creams.

It’s so tough but the next few weeks may develop like the above, we visited the GP 6 times and they gave us steroid each time and made me feel neurotic for wanting referrals to allergists and dermatologists they refused to refer.

I just wish we’d acted sooner. Every HCP was crap.

Anything you’ve kept the same so far doesn’t really matter because their immune response changes at about 4m as above so you’ll have to figure out what is causing this from now as if he’s just been born.

If you’re on formula anyway, switching to one tub of aptamil pepti for £11 odd won’t make a huge difference but it may have an impact.

I don’t really know why but GPs don’t seem to want to help, even when I was there crying about how these symptoms were impacting all of our lives.

It could just be that he finds it soothing and self settling? Some babies just need sensory input to sleep, others don't.

Honestly, it sounds like he's sleeping brilliantly for a four month old with silent reflux (I had one of those, fuck me that was tough and I had DH here). Sounds like you're maybe more in need of strategies to help you sleep through his fidgeting?

@FTEngineerM oh gosh, it sounds like you had quite the time of it 😓 glad your little one is better now though 😊🤞🏼
I’ll definitely keep an eye out for other symptoms but so far he has none! And I’ll look into the other formula that you suggested if things don’t improve soon. He’s just gone onto anti reflux formula in the last week and finally isn’t constantly throwing up and uncomfortable so I’m reluctant to change formula again too soon 😓
Honestly, I’ve been lucky to never have to visit my GP too often myself but since having DS, almost every one that I’ve dealt with for him has been useless 😡
First one - DS started arching back and screaming when BFing, throwing up after each feed, pulling off the boob screaming etc. Went to GP and asked about reflux...”BF babies can’t get reflux” 🙄🙄
Second one - same issue so I suggested trying an anti reflux formula - GP disagreed and prescribed infant gaviscon at maximum dose 😡 didn’t realise that was the case and gave it to my DS...2 feeds in and he was constipated for 3 days!
Third GP- “we don’t recommend reflux formula just half the gaviscon dose or I can prescribe him omeprazole I’d you’d rather”
4th GP - “we don’t tend to prescribe reflux formula because it’s more expensive than the gaviscon if I’m honest” 😡😡 never once had I asked for it to be prescribed - I had asked if they would advise trying it and was always told no. Came the the agreement with her that I’d buy the formula and try it and we’ll evaluate again in 2 weeks and see how he’s getting on.

@MindyStClaire At this stage with him having no other symptoms that’s what I’m starting to lean towards it being if I’m honest! I’ve always been a terrible sleeper so I don’t doubt that it’s mainly my issue 😅 the last time I had a proper nights sleep was last February before I got pregnant 🤣😓 he does bash himself off the sides of the Snuzpod a lot so maybe he’s just getting disturbed and self settling a lot. I do have his proper cot bed being delivered in about a week so I might just transition him into that a little bit early (we had planned to start at 6m) and see how he gets on. We plan to have the cot bed in our room anyway for the first few months.
I’m delighted with his sleeping now. Until he was being treated for the silent reflux it was horrific (you know, you’ve been there 😓😓)...especially during the 3/4 weeks at a time that DH was away and I was on my own 😳 we went through 2 weeks where he had complete breast refusal and I was having to express every 2 hours day and night to get enough milk for him 😳 add in feeding him, sterilising the pump and bottles constantly, trying to settle him to sleep and I was a complete mess 😭 my milk supply completely tanked, which is why we had to move to formula feeding.

Christ OP, how you're still standing I've no idea. You must be exhausted.

Simple things you've probably already done - sleep as far away from the snuzpod as possible. Try white noise if you're not using it already - might help you by covering some of the fidgeting! Try train yourself, when you hear him rubbing his face, tell yourself "that's great, he's putting himself back over, so I don't need to wake up" and make yourself lie there with your eyes closed! If he needs you, he'll cry and you'll be in no doubt that you need to go to him. Easier said than done, I've always been a good sleeper and found it annoying sleeping next to my fidgety sleeper!

Yeah but was @MM321 but I was listening to GPS and my family who just kept saying ‘it’s what babies do’ or some variation of that.

As the parent you know, hence you something isn’t white right as you’re coming and asking here. That’s so crap with the silent reflux experience you had, glad that’s over now.

I do hope it’s nothing and disappears, that would be the best situation. You know what to keep an eye on now. It’s definitely significant that night time sleep is different to day time sleep, keep that in mind if anything changes in the future.

It was** sorry

@MindyStClaire Thanks ❤️ going to try moving the Snuzpod away from my bed tonight. I sleep with him right next to me although I do keep the sides up, we don’t use it as a co-sleeper. We use Ewan the dream sheep for white noise but might try continuous noise on the iPad tonight and see how we get on. Managed to get an hours sleep this morning 😓 DH came and took him for an hour before he absolutely had to leave to go back to work. He always sleeps in the spare room the night before he leaves to try and get him back on track as he has an 8h drive then straight onto 15h shifts for 3 weeks straight 🙈

@FTEngineerM Yeah I’ll definitely keep an eye on things! As you said, it does seem significant that it’s at night!

Hi all, my 14 week old son is really straining to get his poops out! He screamed at 4am this morning it was awful! We knew he didnt poo for 24 hours so knew he was constipated! My husband did some bike movements on his legs for 5 mins and it finally came out not long after, its was hard and quite big and then runny poo came out after which is usually the case. Hard poo first then runny after 🤷🏻‍♀️ hes currently on aptamil anti reflux formula and its been great for the throwing up, he hardly is spitting up anymore! He does poo pretty much every day but straining and really uncomfortable doing so 😒 does anyone have advice as to what we can do to help him?
can i give prune juice at this ages?
will call doctors tomorrow to see if i can get stool softener? Maybe that might do it! But dont babys poo get slightly harder soon anyway? Im really u sure this is my first baby

thank you all