Help needed with daytime naps!

[honeycombe]

I have been having a lot of trouble getting my ds to have a nap - it should be a nice thing not a hassle.
He is nearly 2 now and still needs a snooze in the afternoon as otherwise he gets fractious and believe me I tried not bothering. Usually he is quite happy to be left to go to sleep on his own in the evenings (although he has started getting a bit ridiculous with the amount of times he wants tucking in!!!!) But the afternoons can be a nigtmare with him screaming and crying in his cot for ages. He has never been a great sleeper & i used to bf to sleep when small and stopped doing that at 18 mnths (the suckle to sleep not bf altogether)
Used not to be a major issue but then there were a couple of w/e away which threw any kind of routine into disarray and various shopping trips out in the buggy - this is going back 6 months now just to give a bit of history! When we came back from being away I would bf still then put him in his cot whether asleep or not as usual prior to going away and he didn't sleep for more than an hour and I carried on the cc consisently for 3 weeks and he still wasn,t sleeping for an hour or two (after that I said no more I can't cope with this - maybe he has already grown out of naps AARRGGGH so for a couple of weeks I let it lie and didn't push the nap thing at all (if he ever fell asleep it was in the buggy) although he obviously didstill need a sleep in the afternoon (I also tried just letting him have a rest but he cried about that aswell so gave up) Then i booked an appointment at the local sleep clinic for which I had to wait over 2 months and during that time I slipped into taking him out in the buggy every afternoon so that he would go to sleep (luckily we live in a g/f flat so I could wheel him in and grab a little bit of time to myself for my own sanity! Slippery slope) Then I saw sleep clinic who said I should have a plan and stick to it. Mine was to tell him that things were going to be different for now on and that he would be sleeping in his cot in te day aswell ,reading hima couple of stories and then leaving him to cry himself to sleep without me going back in until he had had a sleep. Lengtgh of time crying before sleep has lessened from 20 mins to 8 to sometimes 4 to noweven a month later sometimes still 15 mins. I feel awful but have tried every thing that i feel could work for us. He sleeps fine a night so I know he can do it quietly and happily! Any suggestions gratefully receieved!!!!!
Honeycombe

How much does he sleep at night honeycombe? And what time and how much does he sleep usually in the day?

My dd's just gone 2 and is quite similar in that she generally goes off ok at night but her daytime naps have always been more of a problem with me never knowing if she's over-tired or under-tired. I've also done the buggy nap solution but it's a pain for us as we're on 21st floor in our flat and can't get the pram down the stairs inside the front door so I gave that up when winter started to kick in. We did get dd back to sleeping in the cot in the day by being firm and consistent and talking to her but she never just goes off 'peacefully', I usually have to go in once to put everything back in the cot that she's chucked out and she yells at me for a moment or two before going off. I think some kids are always going to fight sleep and so long as he wakes up happy I wouldn't worry if he goes off after a bit of a protest.

Thanks for replying - Well he sleeps between about 10 - 11 hours each night from between 8 and 9 to about 7 in the morning. He generally sleeps through the night now for which I count myself lucky although for a long time it wasn't the case. In the day now it could be anywhere from 1 hr to 2 1/2 hours and under advice I wait until later to put him down like 2:30 or 3 rather than after lunch which I would prefer so that it fits in better with all my friends kids. I have had a few rare days where he did actually go to sleep quietly last week and then we went away at the w/e to visit family (makes me never want to go away again sometimes!) and since coming back he has gone back to how he was before - and now wha he does at night aswell is make loads of excuses and delays like tucking in and then immediately sitting up again, pulling the cord on his musical boat, wanting to drink his sleepytime herbal tea ( yes I thought even to give him a relaxing drink) so I do it acouple of times only now and tell him I'm gonna leave the room now because everything is alright, I love him and just let him cry after that so that he knows he can't get away with it otherwise it's gonna get ridiculous! Also you mentioned about them being at least happy when they wake up - well he was always very grumpy on waking and it took a while for him to snap out of it but I noticd that on those few days when he went to sleep without any tears that he woke up happy. He's usually during the day a happy child.

I'm still having problems!!!!!!!!!!! I'm quite new to this MN and I suppose you have to try and time messages or they get lost in the web!!!!!!!!!!!

honeycombe, if he's sleeping 10-11 hours at night then IMO he would still need a daytime nap. I wonder if he's over-tired by the time he goes down? 2.30-3.00 would be very late for my dd who's just gone 2. She's generally asleep 7.30-6.30 at night and really ready to sleep by 12.30 in the afternoon for 1.5-2.5 hours. I have found that when she's over-tired for whatever reason it can take AGES for her to get to sleep. Do you think that might be the problem? I also wonder if having a nap so late in the day is what's making your ds grumpy as whenever dd has a deep sleep late in the day she wakes up in a dire mood. I'm still not entirely sure what your main worry is though, is it that he fusses for a while at nap times? It could be a lot worse ...

Thanks prefernot! Maybe he does need a nap a bit earlier - He did used to sleep after lunch before the routine got out of sync. but then the sleep clinic told me to wait until a bit later to make sure he was tired enough to have a nap - maybe I'll try and bring his nap forward a bit ( it would be better timing for me anyway)! And yeah my main worry is that he cries when I leave him - I just don't understand why he can sleep alright at night but not in the day even though we've got a dark coloured curtain in his room and all other variables are the same! This morning he woke at 6 because the clocks went back - how about your dd? I even put him to bed a bit later! I suppose it will that a few days to reawrite!?!