any advice please - how to keep 5 month old up later than 6pm!!!

[vespertine]

My dd has fallen asleep for the evening at around 6pm ever since she was about two months old (now 5 months). In a (slightly desperate) attempt to encourage her to sleep through, i really want to try to push her bed-time back a bit later if i can, as she currently tends to wake up at the crack of dawn, in addition to still waking a few times a night. I know that she may not sleep through the whole night for a while yet, but i'm trying to start a bed-time routine and was thinking that 6pm really may be a bit too early. When i try to keep her up longer than this, she just gets incredibly grumpy, or falls asleep anyway, no matter how amusing i try to be! Does anybody have any tips about how to do this, or is it likely to just naturally move back as she gets older? Or is 6pm a normal bed-time for such a little one? Any advice would be much appreciated....

When is she napping?

hi vespertine

Do you think she might still need a quick pick-me-up nap late afternoon? That would revive her, then hopefully keep her cheery until a slightly later bedtime.

how much does she sleep during the day.

My LO is 5 months and sleeps 8.30am - 10am then 12 noon till 2 then if she drops off in the afternoon, I wake her up after half an hour.

Bath time at 6pm, last 9oz bottle at about 6.30pm then she sleeps from 7pm - 6am (but 6am is fine for me).

All babies are different though...once I started doing the bath, bottle, bed thing, it really helped.

Good luck!

Hi - my dd is eight months old and goes down at 6pm. She has done this since she was two months old....I like you thought that this might be too early so have tried pushing it back....for a few nights she was going down at 7 (she would nap from 4.30-5.00)but she then started to want to go down at 6....I think this is her natural sleep time. She goes down at 6 and wakes at 6...she occasionally wakes in the night but is easily settled back. I would let her do what she feels comfortable with...I found that trying to push her bedtime made her more grumpy and unsettled. What time does she wake in the morning because if you are trying to get a 7-7 routine then it is a good idea for her to be up at 7am.....even if she is asleep.

Tbh the napping situation is a bit hit-and-miss really. I've been a bit slack about giving her particular times to nap, so she tends to just doze off when she fancies it. Until she was about 3 1/2 months she hardly slept during the day at allas she's quite an active baby, and now she has around 3 shortish naps, usually one in the morning and two in the afternoon. She never really sleeps for longer than 30 mins in the day though....

karen999 - she never ever sleeps later than around 6am

If you can it might help if she is in a routine during the day for naps...my first daughter never had a routine and she was always grumpy and tired which is why second time round I was determined to get dd into a good routine...it has made all the difference.

Just read your message re not sleeping past six..when she wakes up during the night do you feed her and then put her straight back down? Does she go back to sleep and for how long?

dd was like this. was never one for big naps really. she went to bed at 6pm until she was over a year old. now she's 18 months old and still it's around 6.30pm, later if she's wound up, but never later than 7pm. in fact, if she's had a really hectic day she can be ready for sleep at 6pm. having said that though, she doesn't wake in the morning until 8 or even 8.30am. this morning it was nearer 9am (i know, i know, am not smug..) but before she was a year old she did wake around 6 or 7am. frustrating isn't it...but i honestly think they find their own pattern and you have to ride the crap times out

Vespertine, a 6am wake up time is really good for a 5 month old baby. Her bedtime will probably push back naturally as she gets older. Encourage those naps in the day, as at this age the more sleep they get, the more they want.

If you want I could give you a typical example of my day....to be pretty honest it is much the same for dd at 8 months as it was for her at 5 months....if you feel it would help then you can let me know....

go for it. Although babies can all be so very defferent that what worked for our babies might not work for yours

Thanks for your messages, it seems dd isn't the only one then! Sounds like more of a routine for naps during the day might help, so i'll give that a go. karen999 - re typical day, that would be a great help, thanks a lot. When she wakes at around 12-2 she feeds then usually goes straight back down, but then sometimes wakes up intermittently after that, all bright eyed and bushy tailed . The waking has gotten worse lately but from some of the other threads on here, it looks like sleep does tend to go a bit awry at this age...

Hi - colditz, you are right....babies are different! My first was a nightmare, but I put that down to the fact that I did not have a routine! I will point out that my routine looks rigid but is quite flexible (in that even if we are out and about she still sleeps at the same times) It has changed in the last week as mentioned before I have stopped trying to get her down at 7.....it's pretty much

6am - Wakes
6.15 - Breakfast (bottle and cereal)
7.00 - Washed and dressed
7.15-7.45 - Play
7.45 - Put down in cot, curtains closed
8.30 - Wake, nappy change
9.00 - 9.45 - Usually out for a walk in buggy
9.45 - Drink of water
10.00 - Normally in babywalker or swing or sitting with toys
11.00 - Lunch (gets early as is starving!!)
11.30 - Nappy chnage
11.45 - Put down in cot, curtains closed
2.00 - Wakes, nappy change
2.30 - Bottle
3.00 - Plays
3.30 - Put down in cot, curtains closed
4.15 - Wakes
4.30 - Dinner
5.00 - Strip down, kick about, bath
5.30 - Jammies
5.45 - Bottle
6.00 - Put down in cot, curtains closed, story

If she wakes in the night, I let her cry for a minute or so...if she continues I go in, settle her by stroking her head and leave...she usually settles. If I think she may be hungry, I give her a small bottle and put back down.

As I said - it looks rigid but really is not!! It may give you an idea about sleep times etc.....also during the day when she goes down in her cot I leave the radio on in her room (down low) just so that she realises it is a day time nap!!

Gosh, just read it over and have realised I need to get out more!!

Oh should have pointed out that at 5 months I was lifting dd at 10pm for a feed.....and then putting her back down! Sorry forgot that bit - did not drop this feed until she was established on solids.

One thing I would add vespertime is that my 5mo DS can't go much over 2 hours without a nap in the day. He usually goes down at 9am, noon and 3pm. The naps usually total around 3 hours, unless he's had a very early wake up (ie before 6am) when they might last longer. He goes to bed usually 7:30-8:00pm.

Wow karen999 you are really organised, it is becoming more apparent to me that more of a routine would help. It's been quite difficult up to now as have been bf on demand so things a bit all over the place...

And it looks like more naps during the day are in order, but i have a bit of a problem in that if i put dd in her cot and leave her for a nap when she really isn't sleepy, she will scream the house down. Not sure how i can get her to sleep more in the day if it doesn't come naturally to her. Can't face CC just yet!! Sorry to sound useless

a cat nap at 4-5pm sorts my 7 mth old lad out if he is ropey

I know how you feel - as explained my first dd basically got to do what she wanted - some days this was fine but overall I did not feel that we were getting anywhere. I suppose I am a bit old fashioned in that I believe a good routine helps a baby (and me!!)

I will point out that getting into a routine can be just as tiring and sometimes frustrating but is worth it in the end! But, fundamentally you have to do what you think is best for your baby.....normally they are quite good at letting you know what they need!!

My first dd is nearly 8 and still is a poor sleeper and eater which is why I wanted to try something different this time round. Whatever you decide to do just remember that it doesn't last forever and that to enjoy them - they are funnly little creatures!

Forgot to add that you are not useless - you are obviously doing a great job!! It is hard going and I am not sure if this is your first but I remember the first time round ( I was quite young) feeling that at times it would never end.....when you have your second things are far more relaxed and you have the confidence to try other things.

Never beat yourself up.....xx

Ah thanks so much for the encouragement and advice, will defo persevere with trying a routine. I'm weaning her onto bottle-feeding now so that may make things a bit easier. I know i need her to have some sort of structure by the new year as i'm back to work and she has to go to nursery! Managed to keep her up until 6.15pm tonight though, and she even fell asleep all by herself in her cot (still very rare, usually insists on rocking), so i'm feeling a bit triumphant at the mo!!!

I have to admit that I feed DS to sleep , even for his naps. Otherwise he wouldn't sleep. I am gradually changing things and waking him before I put him in his cot to try and make him less dependent on it.

I can only speak from my experience (and little that it is!) that if you can put your child down in their cot to settle themselves to sleep, then this makes things a lot easier...especially when they go through growth spurts etc (because their routine can change)

I know instantly when my dd is getting sleepy and if she is showing signs of this (and it may be outwith her 'routine') ie if they are poorly etc then all I have to do is plut her down and she goes to sleep...

I am a bit boring because I do think that a routine is good, although it perhaps may not work for everybody. Even if you cannot manage the same routine every day, if you can teach your baby to go down and settle themselves then this can be a great help - and I believe is beneficial for baby too!!!

Hope this helps....x