tantrummy 5 month old help!!!!!!!!

[chibi]

My lo is 5 months old and has never been a good sleeper. She fights going to sleep by gouging at her eyes (yes gouging, not merely rubbing) and wakes up screaming more often than not.

I have been co-sleeping and bf to settle her when she's really upset. Should I be leaving her to cry it out instead? I don't necessarily mean some cc type thing, perhaps holding her while she cries.

Also, what can be done about the gouging? She will be nearly asleep + then the hands fly up an all is lost- who could sleep through that? Scratch mitts only prevent her from drawing blood. Has anyone else's baby done this or is my lo (ahem) unique?

Hello

My LO (now 5 months) has always found it hard to "switch off" at sleep time, particularly at night and used to grab at her face, the way you describe.

I eventually discovered that all my holding and "calming" of her was actually geeing her up even more.

What worked for us, (but probably isn't for everyone), is that we have a very strict bedtime routine with bath etc, so she knows it's bedtime. I also find that a late afternoon nap helps, because then she's not overtired at bedtime. It appeared to me that it was being overtired that caused this behaviour, hence it happened mainly at night and not so much at nap times.

The whole bedtime thing was geared towards winding down. I try to take her away from toys and stimulation about 15 mins before the bath and then after the bath it's a little cuddle. I do feed her last thing, as it does relax her, but if she's not asleep when she's finished then so be it. She goes in her cot and I let her fuss and whinge as much as she needs to to wind down. If she gets ^properly upset (not just fussing and complaining), then I'll lift her and rub her back slowly and quite firmly as it seems to force her to relax (a bit like a massage I suppose) and then we put her back down.

I find that if she's not overtired, then we don't usually have to do the last bit at all and the key for me was learning her cues for when she was getting tired and acting quickly, even if it meant I was bathing her at 5pm and her going to bed before 6pm. I never found it made her get up earlier. The other thing was to learn to distinguish between "fussing" in bed which she uses to wind down and actual crying.

HTH.

Oh and your LO is probably a bit old for swaddling, but wrapping a cot sheet firmly round her shoulders and upper arms might stop her flailing and waking herself up.

The flailing isn't as violent if they're not overtired, I find though.

My DD, also 5+ months, can do this if she is overtired or overstimulated (which is often with a five year old in the house as well), but more often than not she pulls her hair rather than the eye gouging. Like 12YG, I try to wind down gently before bed and put my DS to bed first so we can have some calm time together.

I've found that holding her free hand while I feed her and stroking the back of her hand when I put her in the cot helps her to settle a bit better.

thanks iamdaisy + twelveyeargap. We do have a strict bedtime routine, have done since she was about 8 weeks old. I just feel at my wits end with this. It's not a question of letting her get overtired - I know when she is getting tired + will try to put her down, but she just gets more and more wound up + can often end up screaming.

All the books seem to say wait till baby is drowsy + pop her in the cot. She is never drowsy! There is getting tired, and then overtired. In any case, my baby's eyes appear to be springloaded, pop her in the cot and ping! they are wide open and the tantrum begins.

She will do the hands thing in her sleep when she goes into a lighter sleep phase and wake herself up that way. I heard somewhere that you aren't supposed to swaddle after a certain age as it will interfere with development. At this point I feel like I have completely bodged it and maybe I'll get it right with the next lo.

Chibi - try doing bedtime before she shows signs of tiredness. So, in a 5mo, you'll probably find that she's tired about 2 to 2.5 hours after her last nap - you know your baby.

Anyway, if your bedtime routine takes an hour, then start it 1 to 1.5 hours after she last woke (which is why I find the late afternoon nap important - even if it means lying on the sofa or my bed with her and feeding her so she has a 30 min catnap).

That means that by the time you're ready to do the last feed she'll only be starting to get tired. Put her in her cot wide awake if you have to - I always think "oh this will never work, she's too awake" and yet they're the really good nights where we have no fussing at all. It's amazing.

I put a little soft book in her cot so she has something to fiddle with, (she's a fidget), but which isn't particularly stimulating and she'll chat to herself and drop off when she gets tired/ bored.

I read a great book called "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr Marc Weissbluth. It's really enlightening. That's where I read about putting a child to bed happy and awake, before they're showing signs of being tired. Some children's "window" between awake and overtired is too small to do the put to bed drowsy thing.

My DD was like this. I think it is a mixture of over tiredness and teeth on occasions. She was particularly frustrating because she has dummy so would claw at her face, pull the dummy out and then scream bcause she wanted it back.

When we go to bed we've been through a bit of subconcious wind down but you have to do it for them so don't take her from a busy environment straight to bed. Bath can sometimes over stimulate so you could take her to a darkened room, give her a massage etc the sort of thing to make her drowsy. Can you lay down with her and stroke her to sleep holding her close so she feels comforted and secure. Personally I wouldn't want to have too many tears before bed if it could be helped just because I hate to think that they go to sleep upset and I want bed to become a place that they're happy with (but that is just me I hasten to add).

I often settled DD on her side too as it helped when she only had one arm to flail.

Chibi, is the screaming when you put her in the cot quite recent? I mean, has it got a lot worse recently?

Someone on my post-natal thread told me that this is the time they can start getting separation anxiety. I had this last week and found that spending a couple of days doing everything with her beside me and going back and forth to her room when she was screaming at bedtime pretty much nipped it in the bud. She needed to learn that I would always come back to her. (They have a sort of existential crisis and suddenly realise that things can be gone, whereas they didn't think about it before.) Playing peek-a-boo games really helps this too.

TYG lol at existential crisis...it could be this though, she has been a lot needier lately iyswim.

Have you tried singing lullabies? We have had the bath, bottle, bed routine going for a month (ds now 5 mths) starting at 6pm, sometimes earlier. He usually settles fine but a few renditions of Ally Bally Bee and Rockabye Baby help if he's over tired. He does the eye gouging thing too. Horrid isn't it?

We actually have the most problems with getting him to sleep during the day. Nothing works then but putting him in the pram and getting out for a walk, rain hail or shine!