Baby sleeps great til approx 3am then all hell breaks loose

[Etherealhedgehog]

My four month old will reliably sleep a good stretch of average 6 hrs at the start of the night (after falling asleep 7.30 - 8pm). She then feeds and her next stretch is rarely more then one hour and it gets worse from there. She'll wake up after maybe 40 mins, and she is AWAKE. Not sleepy and crying out a bit like when she wakes hungry, but wide awake and babbling away. We try and leave her to it but except for one occasion when she managed to settle herself, it does descend to crying if she's not picked up. She can be fed, or sometimes just ssshhhhed back to sleep but will either spring awake again the second we put her down or, if we're lucky, sleep another 40 mins. All told, I can be lucky to get more than an hour or so of sleep past 2am.

Has anyone had this? Any ideas why it could be happening?

This has been happening since we entered what I assume is the four month sleep regression about a month ago. But in that month her first stretch of sleep has greatly improved, so I know she CAN connect sleep cycles, just seemingly not after that feed in the wee hours. In that case, is teaching her independent sleep likely to help (she is currently fed to sleep)? I know she is overtired due to lack of naps (not to mention lack of sleep in the early am!) but have no clear solution to that other than nap sleep training of some sort (nap thread here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/4152333-Sleep-training-naps-before-nights-for-a-nevernaps-baby - you can tell lack of sleep is making me very indecisive!). What would you try to address first, and how?

She may be having a growth spurt and needs to feed more ( if breastfeeding)? If that doesn't work then keep her in her cot, low lighting, lullaby's etc you may need to stay in the room but give minimum attention. Don't get up with her whatever.

Just to add, too young for sleep training. It's brutal op! Hang in there

Following, i'm in a similar boat, almost 6 months and since about 3.5m I have to hold my son while he sleeps if he wakes after about 3 or 4am. If I try and put him back in the cot he is wide awake chatting and waving about. We've been up a few times at 5am because of it. Os so exhausting because he was getting up multiple times earlier in the night and I was getting 3-4hrs sleep a night.
We moved him into a big cot in his own room recently and the last wakeup has now thankfully shifted to about 5.30am so I 'only' have to hold him for a couple of hours.

@EL1984 oh god, I hope that's not the only 'solution' - we're in a one-bed at the moment and between COVID and her lack of unassisted naps, I'm assuming we'll be here with her in our room til she's at least a year (Hope it keeps improving for you, I can't imagine doing this beyond six months)

@Redwinestillfine thanks - I think your advice to try and leave her to it may be our best bet for now. I've been feeding her in the desperate hope that this day will be the day that sends her back to sleep but it hasn't happened yet! It really doesn't seem like hunger to me, half the time she's not even that interested in boob, she just wants to chat

Same here except we don't get the good stretch that you're getting at the start! 4 month regression seemed to well and truly kick in on Christmas eve.

Since then we get 2-2.5 hours sleep when he first goes to bed around 7.30. Dreamfeed at 10pm (don't know why we're still bothering, it doesn't help) and then he will be up hourly, I usually do a feed around 2.30/3 when he wakes at that time. And then he usually goes down until 4ish after which time it's game over. Wide awake, in the cot babbling away, will escalate into crying if we leave him. Nothing gets him back to sleep. It used to, I would bring him into bed, feed him and let him doze with me until 6 when I felt it was "acceptable" to get up. But now, no amount of feeding, shhing, rocking, bouncing gets him back to sleep. Or if it does he will wake up 5-10 minutes later even if still in my arms. If I left him awake, it would mean his first nap of the day would be before 7am as his awake windows are only about 1hr 45 mins at 4 months old.

Honestly I'm at a complete loss at what to do as well.. I'm so, so desperately tired and considering sleep training but my gut tells me he's too little still.

@moonriver32 I feel for you - last night was more like what you're describing, with no stretch longer than 2 hrs and I am feeling absolutely broken today - really hoping it's just a blip So true about the naps as well - she currently only naps on my lap post feeds or on the move so doesn't really have a schedule, but we did make an attempt to get her napping at home last week - our first attempt happened while it was still pitch dark out, and I'm sure the neighbors loved hearing her object to our attempts to soothe her pre-7am Have given up on that for now - apart from anything else, she seems to be both exhausted as well as hyper as soon as she wakes up (lots of yawning and furious eye rubbing) so it's basically impossible to try and put her down when she's not overtired as she starts the day that way.

My current thinking is to grit my teeth for another couple of weeks and see where we're at then, on the basis that most things I've read say the regression should last about six weeks. If it's still like this, I might attempt a supposedly gentle method for weaning her off feeding to sleep from Precious Little Sleep - it sounds like it could take ages but I'm comfortable at least trying that now. Agree, we don't feel ready for something like controlled crying yet.

Do you give her a dream feed @Etherealhedgehog about 10-11pm? If not that’s what I would try. Put her down usual time, then at 10-11pm dream feed her, and this should hopefully push her long window a bit later in the night/ prevent earlier wake ups.

The late feed is a life saver even if it seems nuts to wake a sleeping baby it is, IMO, key to getting them thru the night.

@Scrunchies we haven't been as I don't mind being woken at 2/3ish to feed as long as she then sleeps in stretches of a couple of hours after that, and I've been waiting on things to return to 'normal'. But you're right, even if it just got her through til 5 this would be much more bearable so we'll give it a go (interestingly, sometimes she wakes for a feed around 11 herself and then does a stretch of about four hours. Combined with the fact that night feeds take about an hour since we started the regression that actually makes for a better night for me even though it involves an extra wake-up, as the shenanigans are at least delayed until about 4ish)

@Etherealhedgehog there is a lot of research which shows babies may only have one ‘long stretch’ of sleep a night. The point of the dream feed is therefore to artificially ‘push’ that long stretch after midnight to tie in with your own sleep cycles better (most adults want to be sleep midnight-the small hours)

@Etherealhedgehog does she take a bottle? Not sure if she is FF or EBF. I used to express for a bottle and get my husband to do the dream feed so I could go to bed at 9 and sleep til she woke at 4. Would that be an option?

Go in and disturb them at 2:45 and they will go back in to another sleep cycle. Repeat for 3/4 might. Voila!

@Scrunchies she's EBF and unfortunately took against the bottle a while back - we're working on getting her to take one, with occasional success, and will keep trying - sleeping from 9 til 4 sounds like the dream!

@Iaintaffraidofcoldtoast I don't necessarily want to delay her first wake up, when I think she is hungry (other than by feeding her later possibly, ie. the dream feed). Do you think this would work for the second stretch of sleep, which is usually just 40 mins to 1hr? It's obviously way less than a night sleep cycle is meant to be, so I don't really understand what is happening there!