17 Month Old Takes 3-4 Hours to Sleep

[George1993]

Hello,

We are having a tremendous amount of difficulty getting our daughter to sleep. She is 17months old, still breastfed and walking very well. She is healthy, giggling etc...

However, her sleeping is absolutely awful, and putting a serious strain on us. I am training as a teacher, and my partner is pregnant again and every night it is taking us at least 3 hours to get her to sleep, most nights more. We have no idea what to do, and have tried pretty much everything it suggests online (so far as we can tell), except 'cry it out'.

The process of getting her to sleep is becoming too much - generally we will both rock her too music/singing until she is asleep on us, then we put her down. Most nights; I will rock and sing to her for 15 minutes and she will fall asleep, I'll put her down, she sleeps for 30 minutes, and is wide awake for at least 3 hours. We do this at about 7pm.

We have tried doing this earlier (today for instance) but exactly the same has happened. She has never been a good sleeper but this is the hardest it has been.

Our general daytime routine is:
Wake up 7-8am
Breakfast 8.15am
Lunch 11.30am
Nap 12-2pm
Dinner 5.30pm
Bed 7pm
(Rocking etc sleep normally by 10.30pm)

When she wakes up after the initial 30 minute sleep she is very alert and giggly. I would say this is a regression, however this has been going on for at least 3 months.

We don't know what to do - we have already asked for a pediatricians help but they never got back to us. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
George

How do you eventually get her back to sleep?

It sounds like the perfect routine! If I was in your shoes I would be shortening the nap by 30 minutes to see if that makes any difference. Do you use white noise as maybe that could help? Good luck!

The same method, rock and sing mostly with music in the background. Other times it will be partner breastfeeding and she will fall asleep and then she will put her down. Both scenarios are after a long battle of rocking though.

I feel your pain. My son was always a bad sleeper although he's a lot better recently. He's 23 months. Every nap and bed time was a battle to the point it was taking us 3 hours to get him to sleep. In the end we let him drop his nap gradually and now he goes down to bed at night fairly easily and will sleep through most nights 11 or 12 hours. He can still be fussy but things are so much better now. 17 months may be a little early to drop the day time nap I think but hang in there, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

We actually have tried the other way round - extending the nap to 2.3hrs. Unsuccessfully. We have been concerned about her being overtired causing this. Essentially she averages 9-10 hours sleep per every 24. Her daytime napping is actually very good. We wake her up at the 2 hour mark.

You need to teach her to fall asleep on her own. When she stirs after 30 minutes she expects to still be in your arms, then can't get herself back to sleep because she hasn't learned how to yet.

Instead of rocking and holding to sleep, sing and cuddle her then lay her down awake. You can sit by her cot and hold her hand or stroke her face while she falls asleep but she needs to fall asleep in the cot.
Once she can do that you can gradually retreat - so first just sit with her til she falls asleep, then move the chair a little way away, until eventually you can put her down, kiss goodnight and leave.

Have you tried holding her past the 30 minute mark and then transferring her? So past her first sleep cycle?

I must be old school, we did a strict bath, story, bed routine with controlled crying. I think it took a couple of nights and the longest we left him was about 6 minutes. He’s 19 now and seems fine.

I think a later bedtime is needed. Without a nap my 26 month old can wake at7 and go to bed at 7 but with a nap it's more like 9/10. She started dropping the nap at 17 months (hello lockdown!). There's a thing called the Possums sleep program that basically boils down to wake up at the same time, wear them out with lots of activity in the day and outside time and then let them sleep when they sleep but don't try and put them down was the first yawn, you build up the sleep pressure all day so by evening they are wiped out. At your DCs age we certainly felt the overtired thing which possums claim isn't a thing 🤷‍♀️ but leaving bed time later makes it easier atm and if she naps she naps (it's random and late if it happens).

Trying to get DD to do the above would end in CIO unfortunately, we have tried but it just doesn't work for her she gets agitated and then it escalates even just a cuddle instead of feeding, rocking looks like it will work but she springs back up and if you sing she'll tell you to stop

You need to teach her to go to settle herself to sleep. She only knows how to go to sleep when being sung to and rocked.

Could you do your usual calm bedtime routine ending up with pyjamas, story in low light on your lap, then lights out, into cot for 2 songs then you sit next to her doing shush pat?

Slow withdrawal of chair, or leaving for a minute and returning.

Devote a week or 2 to this, but never go back to rock + sing.

If your going to start with putting her to bed with out all the rocking and patting do it for the lunch nap first
And very gradually do it with the night one....
What ever you do for lunch time do the same with the night
I find a bit of reverse psychology worked for me
Ie, not dreading bedtime! They pick up on that

Why not let her stay up, playing with her toys, for longer? She's probably just not yet ready for sleep. As long as she is prepared for bed, ie clean, fed and watered, she will probably be quite happy being downstairs doing what she wants and eventually lie down on you, the sofa or a cushion, fall fast asleep and you can carry her up for the night.

This is how we approach it most of the time. It isn't sustainable unfortunately as I normally have to work in the evenings.

• coupled with the fact that partner is pregnant, and wants to rest in the evenings, means this option isn't ideal unfortunately. That being said, we tried this last night; daughter fell asleep while feeding, we put her down, she woke up instantly, and we had to go through the whole process again.

@StacySoloman

You need to teach her to fall asleep on her own. When she stirs after 30 minutes she expects to still be in your arms, then can't get herself back to sleep because she hasn't learned how to yet.

Instead of rocking and holding to sleep, sing and cuddle her then lay her down awake. You can sit by her cot and hold her hand or stroke her face while she falls asleep but she needs to fall asleep in the cot.
Once she can do that you can gradually retreat - so first just sit with her til she falls asleep, then move the chair a little way away, until eventually you can put her down, kiss goodnight and leave.

We have tried this - usually with her crying we feel compelled to pick her up and soother her. I am really sceptical if this is the right choice for us.

@olderthanyouthink

I think a later bedtime is needed. Without a nap my 26 month old can wake at7 and go to bed at 7 but with a nap it's more like 9/10. She started dropping the nap at 17 months (hello lockdown!). There's a thing called the Possums sleep program that basically boils down to wake up at the same time, wear them out with lots of activity in the day and outside time and then let them sleep when they sleep but don't try and put them down was the first yawn, you build up the sleep pressure all day so by evening they are wiped out. At your DCs age we certainly felt the overtired thing which possums claim isn't a thing 🤷‍♀️ but leaving bed time later makes it easier atm and if she naps she naps (it's random and late if it happens).

Trying to get DD to do the above would end in CIO unfortunately, we have tried but it just doesn't work for her she gets agitated and then it escalates even just a cuddle instead of feeding, rocking looks like it will work but she springs back up and if you sing she'll tell you to stop

This is perhaps an option. Just to clarify; are they of the opinion that there is no need for daytime naps?

Agree a later bed time
Is needed. By sending her when she's just not ready you're all getting frustrated.
By putting her to bed at 7, she's treating that like a nap, 30 mins sleep then up and alert and then not ready to sleep again for a while.
You could also try a shorter nap in the day, maybe an hour is enough then she has from 1or 2 ish to tire out again.
We've been in your position and it's frustrating and the key is to find what sacrifice you're willing to make. Do you want to spend 3 hours in her room forcing her to sleep, or would it be better to lose some of your evening time, keep her down stairs playing or reading them let her fall asleep, or take her up when she's actually tired.
Don't bog yourself down with 'training' or sleep routines if it's not for you- try and ' go with it' and see what works for you.

I would try a slightly later bedtime of 7.30- 8pm and try waking her up at 7am every day.
I would also try and get her settling herself in her cot. You can do this slowly to minimise tears and upset. So as you are rocking her to sleep now, you gradually reduce how much you rock her each night until you are just cuddling her to sleep. Then when she is used to falling asleep without movement try placing her in her cot awake but holding your hand her. The just gradually reduce this each night.

Agreed it sounds like bedtime is too early. Over Christmas, DS (also 17 months) started getting up closer to 8am which meant that his bedtime got pushed back to 9pm or so. He now goes to bed at 7.30 but mainly because he's gone back to waking at 6.30am. How much activity do you do during the day with her? I found that there has been suddenly been a massive leap in how much it takes to tire DS out particularly when he's not at nursery and stuck in lockdown. We struggled with taking a while to go to sleep a few weeks ago and I think he was just bored/under stimulated.

Try to see it from her perspective - she falls asleep being rocked in your arms and then stirs half an hour later and finds herself alone, somewhere else - of course she's not going to go to back to sleep.

If that happened to you - you fall asleep snuggled up on the sofa with your partner for example, and then suddenly wake to find yourself alone, someone else - you would not just roll over and sleep, you'd feel freaked out and get up, try to find your partner and work out what had happened to you.

We all stir slightly throughout the night, subconsciously check everything is fine, and roll over and go back to sleep. Adults and children.

If you want her to feel safe and settled in her bed at bedtime, she needs to know she is falling asleep alone in bed. Whenever she stirs she needs to find herself exactly where she expects to be so she can relax and go back to sleep.

I had a similar issue and we chose to comfort in the cot instead.

So once she had gone through her bedtime routine (identical every evening even having the same two books) I would breastfeed until cosy and big cuddle and then explain she was going in her cot. I would then sit and have both my arms through the cot and cuddle and pat and hold hands. Very hands on. Even kneeling and cuddling her if she was stood up. I kept repeating a few phrases 'lay down Mummy will hold your hand / stroke your face / time for a rest now' at no point did I leave the room or stop comforting her. She did cry a little but only because I wasn't doing the specific action of rocking her. Not because she was left alone or was not receiving comfort.

She soon laid down and let me stroke her to sleep. After 3/4 nights like this I moved on to only stroking and smoothing her when she was laid down. So if she stood up I would say 'lay down now mummy will hold your hand' and she would lay down and I would soothe her to sleep.

A few days later I would stroke and soothe and just as she was closing her eyes is light move my hand away but still in her eyeline. She would then fall asleep on her own.

A few days later I would sit next to her and slip my hand out when she was relaxed by quite active I would then 'go to sleep'

A few days later I would place her in cot, say goodnight and 'go to sleep' next to cot, I then progressed to doing that a little further away each night.

After a week or so of me being in the room whilst she fell asleep, I then used to say as she was getting sleepy 'mummy forgot her cup / blanket / pillow and I will be back in a minute. She would then likely fall asleep and I wouldn't need to return.

Yes it took longer that cry it out, and there were some tears of frustration. However it was gentle and slow and she always had one of us there if she was upset. She now sleeps all the way through and we can walk out immediately after she's placed in her cot and she's had her cuddle.

We also use white noise and a light show toy that she can look at. She never took to a comforter but has some more cuddly toys now she's a toddler that she enjoys having in her bed

To mention I did try the pick up put down. But that just seemed to cause so much frustration as she kept thinking I was going to rock her but then I placed her almost immediately back in. Also wasn't ideal with a chunky toddler and my poor back!

@1940s

I had a similar issue and we chose to comfort in the cot instead.

So once she had gone through her bedtime routine (identical every evening even having the same two books) I would breastfeed until cosy and big cuddle and then explain she was going in her cot. I would then sit and have both my arms through the cot and cuddle and pat and hold hands. Very hands on. Even kneeling and cuddling her if she was stood up. I kept repeating a few phrases 'lay down Mummy will hold your hand / stroke your face / time for a rest now' at no point did I leave the room or stop comforting her. She did cry a little but only because I wasn't doing the specific action of rocking her. Not because she was left alone or was not receiving comfort.

She soon laid down and let me stroke her to sleep. After 3/4 nights like this I moved on to only stroking and smoothing her when she was laid down. So if she stood up I would say 'lay down now mummy will hold your hand' and she would lay down and I would soothe her to sleep.

A few days later I would stroke and soothe and just as she was closing her eyes is light move my hand away but still in her eyeline. She would then fall asleep on her own.

A few days later I would sit next to her and slip my hand out when she was relaxed by quite active I would then 'go to sleep'

A few days later I would place her in cot, say goodnight and 'go to sleep' next to cot, I then progressed to doing that a little further away each night.

After a week or so of me being in the room whilst she fell asleep, I then used to say as she was getting sleepy 'mummy forgot her cup / blanket / pillow and I will be back in a minute. She would then likely fall asleep and I wouldn't need to return.

Yes it took longer that cry it out, and there were some tears of frustration. However it was gentle and slow and she always had one of us there if she was upset. She now sleeps all the way through and we can walk out immediately after she's placed in her cot and she's had her cuddle.

We also use white noise and a light show toy that she can look at. She never took to a comforter but has some more cuddly toys now she's a toddler that she enjoys having in her bed

Just to clarify, was she a similar age (17 months)?

@George1993 read the previous two posters - this is exactly what will help.

But you have to create a routine - do exactly the same thing for a week, don't keep chopping and changing to different methods.

My 18month was going through something very similar. She was waking consistently throughout the night. The last two weeks I have reduced her nap to 30mins in the mid morning( She wakes @7am - nap @ 10am bed time is 8pm-8.30pm) The difference has been amazing

This is totally outing for anyone that knows me, but hey ho...

We had exactly the same issues (except no initial 30m), and it was taking until 10-11pm every night. In the end we totally abandoned traditional bedtime as it was too stressful for all of us (we also had a small baby). We did stories and milk downstairs, and then put our toddler in a wrap on our hack, and just got on with life. She's inevitably fall asleep, and we'd transfer her to bed. This migrated to us pacing with her on our back, and it worked in 20-45m. A lot better than 3hrs. She was never under any pressure to sleep, and it was more pleasant for us. After about 9m of this, she started to resist it. We gave her the choice of sling on back or lying down and going to sleep and we'd check on her every 10 minutes. She chose the latter. Every night for about a month we'd give her the choice, and usually she chose bed. For the first couple of months we had to pop in a few times before she went, but now she goes within minutes, totally independently.

The whole thing went at her pace, and without a tear.

It's not for everyone, and probably wouldn't work for everyone, but the existing routine and trying and failing every night was just too stressful, and total abandonment was the only way we could get out of that hole.