please please help me. how can i get my 9 month old to sleep through the night without doing CC?

[beautifuldays]

she usually wakes up every hour between 7 and 11pm and then wakes for milk at 2.30ish and 5ish, she then usually refuses to go back to sleep. she also won't nap in the day for longer than 20-30mins - so she only has a max of 2 half hour naps all day

i tried getting her to go back to sleep when she woke from her nap this afternoon, but she just screamed hysterically for an hour and has been miserable ever since because she is so tired.

i really can't do this any longer, i am so tired and grumpy and have a 3.5yr old at home who is full of energy and i just can't cope with the two of them on 5hrs sleep every night

i don't really want to do controlled crying and i suspect it would involve a lot of crying as dd is a stubborn little madam!

is there anything else i can do before i lose my mind completely? please?!

I can almost guarantee that in as little as a week you can have the same routine....it just takes consistency - which I realise is not always easy.....it is hard work in the short term but pays dividends in the long run...I have a seven year old and so sometimes it is hard to fit in both but because DD goes dowm at 7 then that time is 'us time' for me and my eldest.

I promise that it's not as difficlut as you think - you just have to stick to it!

Sorry if I seem a bit bossy....I am one for a routine as you can tell

The method I used also cut out nights feeds, just over a couple of weeks. I have also used a bit of CC but this only in extending the time of waking, but I'm not sure from your OP that you want to try this
Good night

Hi - sorry, been away with my own screaming 16 mo. To answer your question on my earlier post - if he cried as or when I left the room I would repeat the earlier steps. i.e. tell him to sit down / lie down. Reward him when he did. At least that's how I like to remember it. The reality was probably that I did pick him up for the briefest time possible if - and only if - he was getting into a real state. DS2 is one of those that will scream until he vomits so CC was never a route I was prepared to take. It wasn't a quick solution, but it was time well invested. There are so many variables and possibilities its hard to know what thing or combination of things make the difference. My 'Eureka' moment was realising a). DS2 was actually now developing into a little person capable of following guidance and b) he always, always cried immediately upon waking. I was at a friend's house when her much younger baby woke and could be heard contentedly cooing - I'd never heard DS2 do that. I could then set about trying to convince DS2 that his cot was a lovely place to be, but also that crying wasn't the way to get my attention. I don't think I had a magic method - just a consistent one based on the theory he needed to start associating his cot with lovely relaxation.

My 9 mo has a morning nap at about 10.30ish and an afternoon nap at about 2.30ish.

If i let him sleep any later than 5 then he's not ready for bed.

I have been finding that every so often naps go to pot for no reason and then evenually get back to normal.

aaagh, sorry posted on wrong thread!

Not read the whole thread but Dr Ferber's book focuses on getting the child to self-settle. If you feed to sleep, they think they need you to get to sleep every time they wake up in the night (which apparently for everyone is up to ten times a night but you don't notice because you just roll over and go back to sleep). What they need to learn is how to get to sleep from being put down in a cot, drowsy but awake, and on their own.

I would focus on the settling to sleep on her own in the first place and once she has that, she will eventually get herself back to sleep in the night too. The book (can't remember the name but you can google it) is quite good on all this and on sleep cues.

Not read the whole thread but my 11m DS just started sleeping through by himself in the last couple of weeks, no sleep training at all. No doubt it wont last but just thought I'd share in case it gives anyone hope!

Just my two cents but I think she's gotten herself overtired from the lack of naps and that's impacting her night time sleep. It's normal at the 30 minute mark to either come out of sleep or drop off to a more deep (non-REM sleep) so I'd try leaving her then so she gets used to real naps, and have her in her cot for those sleeps if you're not already. I did this with my son who only did 30 minutes at around 7-8 months and was amazed when he went back to sleep after a little fuss, and got in the habit of taking full naps. I'd tackle day time sleep first and then night- also suggest 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Children' which had been a HUGE help for me to understand what's normal.

beautifuldays, is this a recent thing or been going on for ages? 9 months is a horrible horrible time as i can vouch. probably a bit of separation anxiety setting in as well. we are nearly at the 10 month mark and the horrid sleep has calmed down a bit. i'll find a link for you about 9 month sleep regressions once i finish bathing ds.
xx

found it, the 8/9 month sleep regression

hi thanks for all the replies
unfortunately this is not just a recent thing, she has never slept through the night. i think she prob is over-tired from lack of daytimme sleep, but i have tried settling her back to sleep when she wakes after half an hour - i gave up after she screamed for 45mins

thanks gillhowe you give me hope!

we did the "pickup putdown" method that Tracey Hogg recommends when my lo was 8 months. he was waking every hour or so, and it was driving us nuts, but we too were desperate to avoid controlled crying. this is much softer. it worked wonders for us! which isn't to say he doesn't still sometimes wake in the night (esp with teething or illness or developmental leaps or change, so about every 4th night or so!)
like other posters have said, this was about self soothing with us. we were getting him off to sleep either breastfeeding or rocking or ssshing, and every sleep cycle he would wake up and want those props to get back to sleep again.
so we did the same routine as usual: bath, breastfeed etc., but instead of breastfeeding to sleep i put him in cot just about awake, and said "its sleep time now". left room. he screams. i come back. pick him up to calm him. put him back BEFORE he falls asleep on me. repeat. repeat. until, eventually they fall asleep.
we had to do this again recently, as we had started to have him fall asleep while we were standing there, hand on his back. and his night waking began again. so this time, as he was older, we didn't do pick up, just hand on back and said "sleep time now". he started sleeping through again fairly quick.
now its the damn fireworks keeping him awake tonight!

beautifuldays - if you don't want to do CC then try some little steps - they get less protest. I think thats the essence of No cry sleep solution - so to break the feeding to sleep you just take baby off slightly earlier (closer to wakefullness). Worked a treat (took a little while, cos its gentler) and I remember my pride when he first went to sleep just sitting in my arms. Then after a while you can move to putting them in cot awake but with cuddling arm or something. It eases them slowly into being okay with less physical contact. Definitely improved my babies sleep (though he went from 5-6 wakes to 2, so was still a pain, just better!). I found setting very small goals and looking backwards to see how far we'd come really helped. Everytime we changed something it was a bit of hard work (he'd protest the change, so you had to keep trying, but it wasn't leaving him to cry) but we saw improvements over one or two nights.

Good luck, hope you get some sleep soon.

At last someone going through the same thing as me!! Beautifuldays my baby does exactly the same thing. Expect the last 2 nights its been every 10 minutes for the first two hours after he's gone to sleep (just turned 9 months).

I am also going mad - although feel a bit better realising that i'm not the only one having these problems.

I also bf to sleep - he wont take a bottle or dummy or suck his thumb so uses me instead. tried not giving it to him, he just gets angry and wakes himself up. And in addition to this, he won't sleep in his cot so is sleeping with me every night...has its advantages in that once he wakes in the night for a fed i hardly notice. P**es me off that he hogs all the bed and i don't get my own space.

think the key is to get baby to fall asleep not on the boob - but actually being able to do this is another thing - plus having the energy to do it! Going to try some of the things mentioned in this thread.

re: naps - again same problem. My solution (although worry i'll still be doing this when he's 3) is to sleep with him. Again, i have to feed him to sleep, and i just look at it that i am shattered and need rest too. Downside is that he wakes after 30 minutes and wants to suck to go to sleep, so give it to him to get more sleep but then he doesn't want to eat any food for the best part of the day...think you said you have another child - was reading about putting baby with their sibling for naps so they have the comfort there - only got the one myself so no idea whether this would work or how practical it would be.

the other thing i find works well for getting them to stay asleep is putting baby in the sling - so if you've feed and she's still kicking about on the bed, etc stick her in the sling and just get on with whatever it is you need to (not sleeping or sitting down unfortunately) - babe drops off and i find pretty much stays asleep until i can't bear the weight anymore (mine weighs 23lbs) and have to take him out. Driving around the in car until asleep then parking and eating lunch, reading a magazine, trying to kip in the front seat etc also seems to work for me - although rarely have the energy to get in car and do all the driving.

sometimes i wish i bottle fed, as seems to work so much better for routine - feel like its my own fault for feeding on demand and HV not much help as now tell me just not to give it to him, when he knows no different and let him cry - "its the only way" apparently. How helpful!

right off to bed for another night of no sleep!

I was just going to say, your post could have ben written by me! sme age, same problem. I've not slept more than 3 hours ma in one go since she was born... all exactly the saME, including the falling asleep at the boob. then wanting it everytime she wakes in the night.
i bought a book by a sleep clinic will put hte full details at end of my post... it helps find different solutions to all variaty of sleep problems. it also outlines a really good plan, for exactly our situation, the feeding in the night out of habit. It has a great plan for reducing the feeding gradually, by a miunte each feed avery 2 nights. or you can do it quicker... i.e. night 1 ) feed for 7 minutes, each feed, then stop. if crying still happens, cuddle, rock or even do cc to get back to sleeep..what ever it takes other than feeding.
night 2) feed for 6.5 minutes, or if doing it faster, 6 minutes. and so on until you are down to night 14 ( or 7) at not feeding.
i started doing this, and it really did work. I had to stop in the end as she started being able to stand up, and see us, as she's in our room. she was also unwell and needed the closeness etc. i plan to get back into this as soon as we move ( soon I hope, if all goes as it should! ) and she will have her own room.

the book also explains about sleep cycles, and how they effect them. I was able to ascertain from this, that my DD wakes at the end of the light sleep cycle, rather than going in to the deep sleep seamlessly. most children do wake slightly, but go straight back to sleep...

I hope some of this might help, especially the "night feeding weaning" i think they call it.

I REALLY recommend the book though. I bought in waterstones, buts its available on line too....

" TEACH YOUR CHILD TO SLEEP"
Solving sleep problems from newborn thtough to childhood.
In association with the Millpond Childrens Sleep Clinic

published by Hamlyn. ISBN : 0-600-61345-3

try here

i must add, i had not finished the whole weening plan at night due to the reasons mentioned above, not bcasue it wasnt working. I was beginning to notice the improvemnets. She was stopping to feed when I took her off, with no protest after about 4 days. but hten it all went , literally, tits up!

I really do feel for you. I know jut how you feel. I'm doing it on my own every day/nigh of the week as DH works away mon-friday. its a killer, it really is.

On that note, i ought to try for a snooze now, as she's just gone off to sleep again!
hope the book helps, please give it a go! Its also really easy to read, as in, its in small chiunks and you can find the relevant bits really easily, so can be read even with Dc; around.

good luck

I did Baby Whisperer with my 15 month old dd after 6 months of hell.

Rather than PU/PD, we just went in and laid her back down (as she always stood up)and walked out, then straight back in again...

Took 2 weeks to break the crying, 3 weeks to sort out the sleep, and now she sleeps really well.....and she naps much much better in the day

Yup, me too. 9 month-old breast-fed to sleep, now sleeping in our bed because he wakes so often crying. We tried to put him to sleep without the breast, but he got so upset, he was crying in his sleep even after we gave in and comforted him for several hours. So crying it out is just not an option. But just like the other babies here, he wakes several times between 7:30 and 11, and then at 2:30 and then at 4.30. Sometimes he can be half-awake for about an hour, feeding on and off, which drives me nuts. Although we co-sleep, I can't stay on my side like that for so long AND sleep.
I see what people are saying, that it is important to get them to sleep without the breast, but I just don't see how it will practically work without lots of tears (not worth it). Maybe tonight DH can try walking him to sleep and putting him in our bed. He will of course, wake up and start shouting, but maybe it's a start.

Please try Baby Whisperer method, it really works, and you never leave them to cry.

DD was terrible from 9 months to 15 months. Awake for hours on end every single night. She was exhausted, we were exhausted, life was terrible

Now she sleeps, and I never left her to cry. She cried, but we were always with her all the time.

So fizzbuzz, the key to baby whispering, is to go in when they cry, pick them up, and...? We have tried picking him up and walking him to sleep every time, but he just wakes up and starts crying as soon as we put him down. Have also tried not picking him up, but gently rubbing his back which didn't work either. Could you explain it a bit more? I can't bear to spend money on YET ANOTHER book that doesn't work.

Thanks for your help

Does your LO stand up when they wake up?

If they do, you simply lay them back down, head facing away from you (no eye contact), pat them and say night night time etc sshhh etc. You do this every time they stand up, they will eventually stop standing up and go to sleep.

If they can't stand up, you pick them up, as sooon as they start crying then, when they stop put them. If they start crying half way down, put them down very briefly, and pick straight back up. If they arch their back put them down, and then pick up.

It does work, escpecially if they stand up. If they were a little bit older, you can combine it with walking out as soon as they are put down, then coming straight back in when they are crying.

No leaving them to cry, but trying to teach independence through being there.

I know it's hard, but God, it is so so worth it. Don't give up on 3rd night and expect setbacks.

Dd much more rested and pleasant...it really is worth it. Your life and theirs is in tatters when they don't sleep

Does your LO stand up when they wake up?

If they do, you simply lay them back down, head facing away from you (no eye contact), pat them and say night night time etc sshhh etc. You do this every time they stand up, they will eventually stop standing up and go to sleep.

If they can't stand up, you pick them up, as sooon as they start crying then, when they stop put them. If they start crying half way down, put them down very briefly, and pick straight back up. If they arch their back put them down, and then pick up.

It does work, escpecially if they stand up. If they were a little bit older, you can combine it with walking out as soon as they are put down, then coming straight back in when they are crying.

No leaving them to cry, but trying to teach independence through being there.

I know it's hard, but God, it is so so worth it. Don't give up on 3rd night and expect setbacks.

Dd much more rested and pleasant...it really is worth it. Your life and theirs is in tatters when they don't sleep

Shmum - I could have written your post!!!! Tonight, after several 10 min sleeps I just snapped and have succumbed to the CC. After more than an hour of continous beetroot faced screaming DS finally conked out. I never thought it was physically possible to fall asleep when that worked up but he did and it's the first time EVER he has done this at night! I am dreading him waking up and can see me reverting back to the help yourself buffet in the middle of the night!

Beautifuldays I know you said you dont want to co-sleep - it is a pain, my poor dh has been banished to the spare room on occassions as you can NOT fit 3 in a bed comfortably (even a kingsize). But have you thought about doing it during the day? Babyshoes would not nap, 15 -20 mins if I was lucky and usually in a car or walking - which doesnt help me in terms of sleep catch up or housework! So I got into bed with him and he regularly slept 1-2 hours - Me too!! Over time he has slowly managed to nap on his own (i do have to sneak out the room very slowly avoiding all squeaky floorboards!) leaving him on my bed with pillows so he doesnt roll out.

sorry you're having such a rough time...we are on about day 10 of no cry sleep solution plan and it think it's improved things a bit, so worth a try. like you have always b'fed ds (nearly 6 months) to sleep and now he doesnt know any other way to get off to sleep.
the stuff in the elizabeth pantley book about picking them up when they cry, calming and then putting them straight back down does work to some extent (had to do it 28 times the first night ). he doesnt settle instantly but does settle without a feed sometimes which he never used to tho am still feeding twice a night.
sorry to hijack but am still struggling with putting him to bed initially - keep trying to put him down awake but he goes from awake/feeding to comatose in nanoseconds and i struggle to catch him in time. currently he is going down not exactly asleep but not exactly awake and not sure that's right. anyone any advice?