6 year old DD really struggling to get to sleep in the evenings since we moved house (August). Am at a loss...

[purpleturtle]

Dd has always been a fantastic sleeper, but we moved house a couple of months ago, and dd has been finding it really difficult to settle to sleep.

Having shared with ds1 for the past 4 years, we have put her in her own room in the new house, and ds1 now shares with ds2. The boys are doing great, but dd is struggling.

Although she most often says she can't sleep because she's lonely, she has rejected offers of putting her back in with ds1 or even sharing with ds2 instead. On other occasions she comes up with 'something hurts', or the tv is too loud downstairs, or the dishwasher is too noisy, or she's too hot... It feels as though as soon as we come up with a solution to whatever today's problem is, she invents a new problem.

Her days currently start with a battle to get her out of bed for school in the morning because she's tired, and then end with a battle to get her into bed to sleep. She's often down 3 or 4 times an evening.

I feel like she's convinced herself she won't get to sleep, and it seems to be a vicious cycle that we can't escape from. Any wisdom?

Welcome to my world! My DD, also aged 6, has been like this since eerrrm birth. Exactly as you described. Every single night without fail unable to sleep despite being tired and often calling out for attention. Then tired the next day when we need to get up for school.

I've searched high and low for relaxation techniques, how to 'teach' her to fall asleep to no avail so I'm afraid I'm not going to have any miracle suggestion for you.

Some things you could try, though, are playing soothing music, playing a story cd, sitting in the room on a chair (until she can do it again), star charts, a special teddy, sending her to bed a little later so she's even more tired, giving her an item of your clothing to wear.

Good luck! meid x

I am sitting on the PC in the room next door to dd's because she has started this. She turned 7 yo last week and has been a really good sleeper until now. She asks "how do I get to sleep". I may have to buy a dummy . She has convinced herself that unless she has been to an after school activity she can't sleep. She always listens to a story tape and I now let her read for 20 mins. She's still tossing and turning now grr! I tell her to imagine nice things - what she'll be doing tomorrow etc. To snuggle down with her teddy/doll whatever is toy of the day and breath slowly. It works but in the meantime I'm a prisoner in the room next door to stop her getting up and coming down to tell us she can't sleep. She be tired tomorrow!

We had problems with DD a few months ago when the onset of chicken pox coincided with her getting a new bed. In the end a star chart for staying in bed worked for us (with obvious exceptions for occasions such as really feeling ill). She's mostly OK now (tempting fate by saying that, I know). Took about 5 weeks of filling in the star chart. She didn't have to go to sleep, just stay in bed quietly. I think we did 5 stars and she got something like a magazine, or a trip to the swimming pool, or similar.

(DD's 7, by the way)

This is going to sound nuts but you've nothing to lose: work out which way the head of her bed was facing in your old house (i.e. north or whatever) and move it so it's facing the same way. Also, try some simple Feng Shui - is the head of her bed near a down pipe in the wall? Under a big concrete beam in the ceiling? etc etc Maybe she could have a sleepover in the DSs room next weekend and see how she sleeps? HTH

Oh god we've got tears now. Can I bash her over the head or is that a little harsh. She'd sleep

Oh dear, poor you Fran (poor her too). No fun, is it.

Tonight she's had bath, hot chocolate, later bedtime at 8.30 pm and 20 mins reading. Story tape is playing quietly and I'm sitting next door. I'm knackered so why isn't she? {hmm] SHe has convinced herself she can't sleep that's why!

Yes - DD used to get herself all worked up that she wasn't going to have had enough sleep and would be tired the next day, and that would keep her awake too. Bribery - but you need to set it up during the daytime, so that she's going to bed with the mindset that she's going to stay quietly and happily in bed, even if she doesn't sleep.

Thank you all. Sorry to hear how long you've been struggling, Meid.

I was wondering about a star chart/some kind of 'reward scheme'. I feel like I've tried pretty much everything else that's been suggested.

We've always been fairly laid back about actually going to sleep. So long as they're upstairs and we don't see them after about 7pm we're happy. She could read as long as she wants to, really. So now I'm beginning to wonder whether to limit reading time. But that feels like picking a fight, and there are enough fights happening as it is.

Where is her bed in relation to the door/window? Try and make it as similar as possible to before so the 'bits of light' in a dark room feel more familiar.
Or, without ds it may just be too quiet. I used one of those natural noise machines with dd (you know, with rainfall, ocean etc) Worked a treat!

Can't move the bed. It's a tiny room, and the bed only fits in one place.

They were in the attic bedroom before, and I do wonder whether being a bit closer to all that's going on downstairs, now that we're in a semi, she feels left out.

She slept in the boys' room last weekend, at her instigation. She was all set to share ds1's bed, but apparently she was tickling his feet so he promptly opted to sleep on the floor! She did go off with less fuss. Which is why we've suggested moving them round, but she says she doesn't want to. I do feel like she's deliberately working against me at times.

Thank you for all your responses. Am going to go to bed myself now, otherwise I won't have the requisite patience for the Monday morning challenge!

Hope your dd is asleep very shortly Fran.

I'm bad at getting to sleep, so I sympathize, although I have to admit that my two stay in their rooms partly because they are frightened that dh will shout at them (they tiptoe out to have a wee!). They both go through phases of "can't sleep" but generally I chat to them for a minimum time and resettle them and then after a short while I pop in again and they are sleeping (although they will deny this afterwards). Could you get dd to compare the two rooms for you? ds has to sleep in a certain direction, otherwise he falls out, so that's a straightforward one for him, but I have to have it dark, dh has to have it cold, and dd has to have it not too dark. ds thinks he has to have Paddington playing (this is a fib though), so there are many reasons why people can find it difficult to settle. With my two if it gets really bad (the sad I can't sleep wailing that is) I usually give them a hotty botty with camomile on it, and that does the trick.

Pupleturtle - hope you and Fran and all kids have a good night's sleep.
Off myself now to try and help an insomniac dh...!

Thanks Nooka - camomile - haven't tried that. (Haven't even thought of that)

I think we're going to try putting them all in one room. Ds1 doesn't want to be by himself either. He wants to share with ds2.

This way we'll have a sleeping (hopefully!) room and a children's dressing room!

I got a glimpse this morning of what the root problem might be though. I think dd needs a bit more one-to-one mummy time. I don't know how to achieve it, but I think that's what is making her unhappy.

Will have to talk to dh about ways of making it happy. Don't want to broach it, as he's just settling into a routine himself, and now I want to change it. He's not going to like it.

making it happy = making it happen

I had big problems with my DS who is now 4yrs old when we moved house 2yrs ago he finally settled August this year! I had battles every night getting him to sleep and settling him in the middle of the night. I had the I cant sleep, I'm scared, there's monsters in my room all sorts.
Part of his problem though was we experienced 2 deaths in the family within 3 wks of each other - 1 before the move 1 after.
This heightened an issue we already had as his father died when DS was 3 months old. DS keeping hold of me incase i was going to leave him also.
The only way sometimes I could get a full nights sleep with no problems was to have him in with me - which I did occassionally as being up for 3 hrs in the middle of the night gets very draining.
Before the move he was bath, milk, story and bed, with light out and door shut. After move we had to have a light on and door open.
Your DD has had a big change not only a new house but a room alone. Did you talk through the change with her? They are like us and like to be prepared.
I spoke with a child psycologist who suggested a couple of techniques.

1. Try sitting in the room with them till they fall asleep. Once settling nicely with you near them, move slightly away the next night and repeat until you are sitting on the landing.
2. Kiss her goodnight tell her you will return in 10 minutes and that you'll kiss her again. keep doing this eventually they should settle. With my DS the first technique worked though I couldnt get past the door! BUT he settled completely on his own, we were at my sister's, I was suffering with a cold, I read him his story and I told him i needed a drink for my throat and I would return, when I did he was asleep. Tried again the following few nights and he fell asleep. Now I read, give him a hug do the usual - love you, see you in the morning and leave. It has made a huge difference. In the middle of the sleepless nights i met a new partner and was sure he would leave me due to DS sleeping patterns, thankfully he didnt and in fact he used to help me and take over, which I had never had before. All I would say is keep trying things, moving them all together may help especially when they are used to company - either way it can't help to try - I kept trying and it paid off. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck

you are not alone!

we moved house a fortnight ago and dd1's been a nightmare since.

she's 4.

she's finally settling, but only because she and dd2 are in the one room and they wound each other up almost all night last night.

they crashed out tonight.

here's hoping.

I was thinking about this last night, and the other thing that occured to me is that sometimes not going to sleep is a bit of a mask for other feelings, and that sometimes children have odd associations with moving. dd for example was very upset to move (which we did about a year ago) because she thought she would forget about her cat, and suddenly got very weepy about the cat (which died about a year before we moved). I think this was a general expression of angst about the move, but spending time looking at photos and choosing a couple to go in a frame on the wall of her new bedroom did really help. Both children seemed quite happy about getting their own rooms, but they are adjoining and for the first few months we set them up so they could see each other at night. I also chose some stencils with them and we painted on their walls, which I think helped with ownership, and gave them some nice associations with their new rooms. Both of these activities gave them plenty of opportunity to talk about how they felt about their rooms and the move, and to be able to have a "girly" room (dd has lots of purple/pink daisies) and a non-girly room (ds has a Star Wars battle across one wall). Now we are planning to change coutry which will be a much bigger move and they seem quite relaxed about it. dd still has sad moments when she says how much she misses our old flat every now and then, but these are quite fleeting now.

Hey expat! Was thinking about you over the weekend when we got a long list of problems with the house we just left that the estate agents want to take out of our deposit. I know you've had experience! Think we've resolved it though. Thank God for a sensible landlord.

Sorry to hear you have sleep issues too.

Thanks again for the thought you've put into this, Nooka and JP2003. I do think that it's not so much a sleep problem per se, and more a something else problem. We have had lots of significant changes in our lives over the last 2 or 3 years, and the children have weathered them all really well, so I think I've become a bit complacent and expected them to just get on with it. In many respects they have done actually.

JP2003 we have talked through the change in sleeping arrangements, but I think the idea of having her own room and the experience of it have been somewhat different for dd. I kind of tried the gradual withdrawal on Sunday evening, but we'd both got so tetchy with each other that after a while I lost patience and had to come away.

Yesterday evening was much better. Although she didn't get to sleep any earlier the whole atmosphere was much less confrontational on both sides.

I'm going to try to spend some more time with her, and see whether that addresses whatever underlying insecurities there are.