Advice on CC : My nearly 9m/o is it time to CC?

[Potter19]

Hello
Always been a watcher on Mumsnet and this is my first post, firstly - thank you for all the advice over the past 9 months.
Please no negative comments - I am very sleep deprived and emotional as a result.

I have a beautiful 9 month old girl. She’s BF. Recently sleep is a real issue. She has never slept through which I wasn’t ever bothered about. Her sleep has been good and bad in fits and starts since birth. It was just getting easier at the 8 month mark with 2 x 1.5 hour naps in the day and only 1 or 2 night wakings from around 8-7am (not for food just comfort/ to be held and then back down again 10 mins later)

But now this is every 1- 2 hours awake crying. Now it takes sometimes an hour to get her back to sleep rocking and then she is awake again shortly after being put down. Her naps have gone back to 40 mins unless I rock her back off which takes a minute or so. She’s used to just roll over or put her dummy back in and go back off. I understand there is a regression at this age but it’s almost 4 weeks since it began. She has always been nursed and cuddled / rocked/ bounced to sleep with a dummy (my own fault - first time mum and nothing else worked).
She isn’t wanting boob until around 5/6am/ 7am so I know it’s not a hunger thing. I offer water but she’s never shown much interest in that either.
I am struggling. She is miserable and so am I!
I have some questions regarding CC and we are considering this method when her separation anxiety settles and she isn’t teething (both of which I think she is currently experiencing so I will continue to nurse through this)

I have always swore I would NEVER do it but I’m becoming desperate and cannot sustain current affairs. She cannot self settle and I know I’m not helping her learn. We tried PUPD with no result it just seemed to wind her up.

1. Does it have to be one parent that goes in to sooth or can it be both? Or does that confuse the child? She seems very attached to me at the moment but hubby willing to do it whilst I go out so that I don’t have to hear her cry and break my heart
2. Are there any books that are useful to follow? If I’m going to do this I need to do it right and fair And follow guidelines
3. Dummy allowed? I’ve read mixed reviews
4. How long is too long? Obviously the longest you leave is 15 mins or so but I’m talking from the time you put them down to when then eventually so to sleep? Can it go in for 4/5/6 hours? She has a very strong will and worried how long it will go on for.do we quit it after 3 hours because it’s not working?
5. If she wakes at 5am - shalli feed her? Shall I rock her back off at this time or not? Any earlier waking so would just follow the cc rules? but I feel like 5am is close to waking for the day.

I should add - all naps and sleep are in her own cot in her own room Since 7 months it’s blackout with white noise. Her routine is bath, massage, song/ book to settle then feed sleeping bag and bed. Naps are the same routine minus the bath. Always done this and never not done a bedtime / nap time ‘routine’...

Thank you in advance

Hi just wondering if anyone can help? Thinking about trying pick up put down again instead? She can pull up now so would need to lay her back down in her crib anyway.
Also maybe she’s napping too much in the day?

I don’t know - I’m lost! Please any advice is so welcome
Thank you

I am sleep consultant and don't like CC under 12 months old. That said, some people do after 6 months so it's your call, that's just my personal opinion.

I love dummies, they are the single best way to achieve gentle independant sleep without any tears. But dummy is not going to work well with CC, because it's unlikely baby will be thinking rational and logically enough to find/insert own dummy alone when in a highly distressed state. If you do CC it's probably best you go cold turkey on the dummy at the same time. Or at least for the period you sleep train, perhaps reintroducing it (if you want to) after a week or so once going to sleep is less fraught.

My recommendation would be to stay and comfort. That way you can keep the dummy (you're there to keep the sucking going). The whole process will be less distressing if you can keep baby actively sucking, since he can't cry whilst also sucking (It's physically impossible).

Whichever option you choose, you feed to fully seperate feeding and sleeping. So feed baby before the bath for example, and feed upon waking from daytime naps not when going to sleep.

Your primary focus needs to be:

• total consistency. Same thing every time you want baby to sleep (daytime naps, bedtime, all night feeds)
• going from being fully awake to fully asleep all done in the cot. So not rocking/cuddling to drowsy. Fully awake in the cot- do your comforting with baby in there.

Getting active sucking on the dummy helps with in cot settling. Tapping on outside of dummy triggers sucking. Or remove and ticklh top lip with teat so baby seeks it with mouth. Aim dummy towards roof of mouth to encourage sucking, not back of throat.

In the cot, keep your hand on baby's chest and lean into the cot so that your face is as close as possible to baby's face. Your physical closeness helps. Patting and shushing if distressed. Or just wait and be still, but physically close and touching baby as a comforting presence.

Thank you FATEdestiny
I’m trying to wean off rocking to sleep because I’ve found that if i go straight to crib and try to settle there it just turns into her rolling over crawling pulling up etc
She just won’t lie down or settle even if I get right in there and hold her down gently she’s just wriggles and cries
Have you any experience or advice about weaning off the rocking? I’m just doing less movement with every nap / bedtime and stopping sooner and sooner...Hoping to able able to stop movement altogether and eventually settle In the cot is the ultimate goal

it just turns into her rolling over crawling pulling up etc
She just won’t lie down or settle even if I get right in there and hold her down gently she’s just wriggles and cries

This is a normal phase babies go through when they learn to crawl. Even babies who have always slept independently will go through this phase. It is therefore not a reason to think in-cot settling won't work, you just have to be consistent and get through it.

At its most basic, what you are teaching baby is that in order to go to sleep she must be still, calm and quiet. She doesn't know this. It's so ingrained in your own psyche that it's difficult to grasp that your baby doesn't know this instinctively. Baby's instinct is "I am distressed" (because I'm tired and want to be asleep) and a baby's responce to being distressed is thrashing around.

You need to go through the process of teaching your baby: when you feel distressed because you are tired, you need to be still and relax. Obviously you cannot explain that to baby. So you have to physically teach it.

What to do? Start with setting your own demeanour.

Keep in mind your aim - calm, stillness. So you behave in this way too. Keep your movements, voice and all dealings with baby slow, quiet and calm. There may be tears and fighting against you, but keep your own responce away from being tense. Also, be compassionate- your baby needs your care and attention. So don't get cross or ignore baby.

Next for teaching baby.

You need to just keep going, don't give in just because your baby doesn't understand she needs to be still. You are there to teach her. If she is struggling to understand then carry on teaching her, in a kind and compassionate way, but without giving up and deciding not to bother teaching her.

Put her down and put your hand firmly on her chest. Bend low into the cot so your face is close to hers. Tap on dummy if she gets distressed and need reminding to suck. If she still cries then remove dummy and get baby to actively seek the teat (tickle top lip or cheek with teat so she turns to actively take dummy).

Stay bent over cot close, hand on chest to keep her still. If she squirm to the point where your hand on chest can't keep her still, lift baby to an upright hold on your shoulder (not a cradle hold, you're not looking to get her sleepy). Just a brief cuddle and straight back down - hand on chest and bend over cot to be close. The lift-and-return is a reset to reposition baby lying still, not an aim to calm her. The calming happens in the cot.

Then just repeat repeat repeat.

Into cot > hand on chest > active dummy sucking > wait. If squirming try patting with hand and tapping dummy > if still not staying still lift and reposition > back to the start.

Repeat repeat repeat.

In the end baby will still and settle. Once still and calm, lift your hand but stay by the cot. If squirming replace hand on chest until still, then withdraw hand once calm.

Wait by the cot until fully asleep - deep sleep. So a good 10 mins after first going to sleep. That allows you to respond quickly if stirring in sleep. Then seek out of the room ninja style.

@FATEdestiny Hi 👋 Do you find any particular brand of dummy to be more successful with babies over 6 months? My daughter enjoys playing with dummies (popping them in and out of her mouth while I'm trying to get her to sleep 😂), but she never sucks on them

Is she pulling them put her mouth with her hands? Or it dropping out her mouth because she's not sucking it?

Neither are really about the dummy type, although worth trying different types because their mouth changes shape as they grow. My son used to like flat shaped teats when older, my daughter cherry shaped bulbous ones. Cherry teats are often most effective for little

@FATEdestiny Thank you so much for giving up your time to give such a thorough answer, it's very kind of you!

She pulls it out, pops it back in, bites to make it squeak, pulls it back out, repeat. She used to suck on a dummy when she was very little to get to sleep, but started rejecting it at about 3 months and I've never used one since. I tried reintroducing it last week, which is when she discovered her fun new game 🤦🏻‍♀️😄

Your advice here has given my partner and I a new resolve to try teaching her to settle again. We've been flying by the seat of our pants for weeks now, doing absolutely anything to get her to sleep, and she's getting harder and harder to settle. Thank you again for the advice

If you've not consistantly used a dummy it is very hard to get it accepted after about 4/5 months old. As a newborn your baby had the sucking reflex which is what we use yo get baby used to the dummy. Then consistent use creates the sleep association (dumnmy = sleep) as baby gets older and loses the suck reflex.

So in short, if you've not been consistent with dummy use then you've probably missed the boat

The net result in that is - there will be a lot more crying. Brace yourself for it, because it really is a lot and you need to be in an emotional position yourself to deal with the distress.

Set up something else as a comforter - teddy, blankie, muslin etc. That's the aim for independent comfort so utilise it constantly in every possible comforting situation. Snuggle it to baby's face as you feed, whenever you cuddle, all nice relaxing and comforting times 24h a day. You can establish it as a comforter. What you can't do is use it to stop the crying immediately like a dummy does (because sucking makes crying physically impossible, whereas a comforter is snuggled not sucked).

@FATEdestiny Thank you for replying again! I did wonder if I'd missed the boat with a dummy 😕 what are your views on the sush-pat? Is that just another prop like rocking or feeding? She sometimes drops off with a sush-pat in the crib, as long as she's tired but not overtired (the blink and you'll miss it window!). Otherwise we rely almost entirely on her being jiggled to sleep in her dad's arms, or fed to sleep by me 🤦🏻‍♀️

Bunters - I use ‘NUK Genius’ dummies and my LG didn’t take it until around 6 months old

FATEdestiny - thank you again for your time and advice I will put into practice straight away

Yes, shushing and patting would be the way to go. You want to find a way to comfort baby to sleep in the cot, rather than in your arms. That's what is important, that baby goes from fully awake to fully asleep in the place they will stay asleep - ie the cot.

Ove time you can gradually and slowly reduce the shushing and patting, once baby is used to going to sleep in the cot.

@Potter19 I was just looking at those this morning! I might try them. I tried the old 'bait and switch' when I was feeding her earlier, to try and get her to suck on the dummy and she was not amused 😂