Sleep Issues for 4 Yr old

[JoAdams84]

Hello,

I am looking for some guidance on sleeping for my 4.5 year old son as me and my husband are running out of ideas and feeling pretty helpless!

Background:

We put my son to bed at 6.30. He is then playing in his bed for over 2 hours – Just imagination play. Not getting out of his bed or playing with toys but just not trying to settle to get to sleep. Once asleep around 8.30 he will then sleep straight through to 6.45 the following day and doesn’t wake at all during the night. When we put him down in his bed he is visibly tired and yawning as we are very active with them but something is stopping him from settling him down.

We have tried to put him down at 7.30 or 8. But then he was still taking 2 hours to get to sleep and would wake up at 6.45 still so would be even more tired.

We feel helpless with him and don’t like the idea of him lying up in his bed taking 2 hours to sleep when he is tired. He will wake up the next day and still be tired which then means he will be moody!!

We would welcome and guidance or advise on settling them at night.

Thank you,

Jo

Does it really bother you that he is playing in his bed before sleep? In all honesty, I can’t see the harm in this unless it means you are tip-toeing round the house from 6.30 and this is annoying you. Some people need a decent wind-down and maybe this is his way of doing it. I don’t sleep well unless I read for at least half an hour once I’m in bed, and I started doing this as a child. Obviously not at his age, but by the time I was 8 or so I was definitely going to bed with the intention of reading for an hour before I went to sleep, and my bedtime took this into account.

11h overnight sleep is the right amount for this age. So your bedtime is far too early for a 7am (ish) wake up.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/sleep-and-tiredness/how-much-sleep-do-kids-need

The issue you have got is that he's been out to bed too early for long enough to lose the habit that bed=sleep. He's gone to bed too early so has developed the habit that bed= quiet playtime first, then sleep.

As to what to do. Either, keep things as they are but don't expect sleep until 8.30pm ish. So have seperate "bedtime" and "lights out". Put to bed as you have at 6.30pm and allow for quiet play until "lights out" (when actually going to sleep) at 8.30pm. Then over time reduce the time of quiet play by making bedtime gradually later and lights out gradually earlier.

A sleep time of 8pm-8.30pm sounds about right for your DS. I'd aim for that.

The other option is to get strict. So not allow for anything other than complete silence, not moving and staying still in bed after bedtime. This sounds harsh but it is what most (many) children do as a matter of course - bedtime means sleep time so they don't do anything but close their eyes and relax.

My personal view is that equating bed=sleep is healthier in the long term, so I would do that. But given you've been happy with quiet imagination play until now, it might better suit your parenting style to go that way.

6.30 sounds like a ridiculously early bedtime to me. And if he is staying in his bed to play, I wouldn't personally make an issue of it. My 3 year old (4 in October) goes to bed around 7.45 - 8 and often similarly plays/chats to himself for 20 minutes before falling asleep but never bothers anyone else and then sleeps through til 7am.

Thank you for your messages.

I agree with the comments than 6.30 probably is to early and about the 11 hours a night. However, we had tried to put him down at 8.30 but was still taking 2 hours to get to sleep and then would be up at the same time so was even more tired.

It doesn't massively bother us that he is playing in his bed before he falls asleep but like @FATEdestiny mentioned it now appears to be a habit as he is certainly tired when we put him down. Also, it wouldn't bother us if it was the 20 minutes that @LaTomatina mentioned but 2 hours seems excessive and more a habit.

We have tried the strict approach but it doesn't seem to be getting through. I do think bed = sleep is the right approach though so would welcome any more of your thoughts on how to administer that.

Thank you all :)

I think FATEdestiny's suggestions are good. Try something like that, and allow for it taking a few nights for him to get used to the 'new normal.'

we had tried to put him down at 8.30 but was still taking 2 hours to get to sleep

That's just habit because bed does not equal sleep, so regardless of what time you put to bed or how tired he is, he does not have that ingrained expectation that going to bed means going to sleep.

I do think bed = sleep is the right approach though so would welcome any more of your thoughts on how to administer that.

The basics are that you adopt a sturn, no-messing about persona, have very strict rules that have zero option for wriggle room, be consistent about applying the rules and have high expectations of the behaviour you expect at bedtime.

The specifics of how to go about that depend on what he's doing when he should be asleep. So what form does his play at bedtime take? What is he doing for the whole of the two hours?

Thank you for the reply @FATEdestiny

He would be playing with his bedding, taking his pyjama's on and off, going to the toilet, playing with his 1 soft toy, changing direction of which way he sleeps etc and just chatting away to himself in an imagination world!

With regards to the toilet we have taken him out of nappies a month or so ago. However, this wasn't when it began but now he will go to the toilet 3 or 4 times during those 2 hours.

We have a camera to monitor him and speak over that. However, we are not sure how to monitor this strictly as we use the naughty spot during the day but he almost seems to want that to get out of being bed so finding it difficult how to enforce it and what will get through to him.

Thank you for your help and advise.

He would be playing with his bedding, taking his pyjama's on and off, going to the toilet, playing with his 1 soft toy, changing direction of which way he sleeps etc and just chatting away to himself in an imagination world!

All of that is unacceptable behaviour at bedtime in my view, every bit of it. Regarding going to the toilet - that's just delaying tactics and an extension of "I want something else to do to occupy my time" rather than an actual need. If he's had a wee at bedtime, then no more messing around with toilet runs.

Be strict.

So set some very clear ritual before bedtime and very simple rules at bedtime. Throughout the daytime talk about them a lot, so come bedtime he knows exactly what to expect. Keep pre-bedtime routine short. My suggestion would be:

• Milk downstairs
• Bath (if you are bathing that day)
• Toilet - stress this will be the only toilet trip allowed. If you think there may be accidents, go back to pull ups. It's not unreasonable to still be in night time pull ups at 4 yo.
• Brush teeth
• Choice of nightwear (from two temperature appropriate options you pick). Once he has chosen he will not be allowed to change - this removes the PJs on/off issue.
• One short (

h, and I would do an 8.00pm bedtime with the expectation that (after you've had a week or so's worth of battles of wills) he is asleep by 8.30pm at the latest. You may well find that once you have done with the battle of wills, he's falling asleep by five or ten past eight.

I wouldn't agree at all with the above poster. When adults go to bed we might play on our phones, chat to our partner, watch a bit of TV, or even just spend a while trying to get comfy in the bed. Why would you expect a child to lie down perfectly still and fall asleep straight away? My 2 year old sometimes has a little natter to himself or a sing for 10 minutes before going to sleep. I can't imagine walking in and shouting for him to stop it, that's ridiculous.

Also think 6 30 is way too early. My nearly 3 year old goes to bed about 20 past 7

While I would not let me children take phones to bed or fall asleep with the TV on Kittykat93 (it's a constant battle I have with my two teenagers), I do agree that some leniency would be expected in the long-run.

My suggestion above is as a means to set some expectations with the OP's toddler, since I think we can all agree that 2 hours of messing around at bedtime isn't a great habit to be in. I would start off with being very strict in order to reset expectations, with a view to easing up once better boundaries are in place.

It would be difficult to set some form of half-way-house set of expectations to change the OPs child's behaviour. I dont know what suggestions would work to say abc messing around at bedtime is acceptable but xyz messing around isn't, and you may do this for half an hour but not for 3 hours.

Toddlers are like teenagers - they like very clear, very simple rules. Then relax the rules once behaviour is improved.