4 year old does not go to bed!

[CranberryFizz]

My 4 year old does not go to bed, he actually comes alive at 'bedtime'. He is happy enough, just wants to play.

Issue is that he keeps my 7 year old awake and she needs her sleep, she is done by 7 but gets up at 5! Upshot is that he keeps her awake at bedtime and she wakes him up early = 2 very tired children!

Can anyone share any words of wisdom?

Bedtime at this age comes down to rules and boundaries. It's a time for being strict and firm, not a time for negotiating or tolerating messing around.

What time is 4yo and 7yo bedtimes?

We have very strict routine and rules, they both go to upstairs for bathtime followed by stories at 6pm, asleep for 7pm. 4 year old is not being naughty he just isn't tried, he literally comes alive at this time of the day.

Respectfully I am jot looking for judgement on my parenting skills but practical advice from anyone who has experienced the same conundrum and how they overcame it.

do they share a room? does he get out of bed?

Will he stay in bed quietly and look at books? Ds2 was never tired and wouldn't want to sleep. Ds1 likes peace and quiet to sleep. So we compromised that DS2 could have his small lamp on and read until he fell asleep.

I also found that a bath wakes him up so baths before bed were a no.

They don't share a room but he disturbs her by being up and down, he plays, reads and generally the happiest person on the planet between about 7 and 10!

Could you make everything as nothing and dull as possible at bedtime?

So don't allow for play or any stimulation (the time for that is daytime). How would he respond to the insistence that the only things he is allowed to do past 7pm is lie still and quietly on his bed.

Boredom is what you want at bedtime. Boredom, stillness, quiet and darkness. When 8 mentioned earlier about behaviour boundaries at bedtime, this is what I meant. I wasn't being judgemental. I was just saying that he should be not allowed (from an expected behaviour POV) to keep sibling awake or play. You could insist he lies on his bed quietly and does.... nothing. Nothing at all. You can't make him sleep. You can make him extremely bored.

You have had some very sound advice already. Persistence is key here, have a wind down routine, bath, snack and drink of milk, brush teeth and a story, then after that bed. If he gets up just put him back in bed and keep doing that until he gets bored. When you put him back in bed don't talk to him too much just repeat it's bed time now. I have four children all grown up now and this my drill it was tough at first and my DS3 went through a period where he struggled to settle but after a few weeks he got used to the routine.

You can't let him be the happiest person on the planet between 7-10. It sounds like he's fighting his sleep and if it's enough to wake up his sister then it's obviously a problem. He needs a firm routine and lots of consistency with being put back to bed with no stimulation

Let him read and play downstairs with you so as not to disturb your seven year old. He'll probably fall asleep at about ten and then you can carry him up.

jessstan2

Let him read and play downstairs with you so as not to disturb your seven year old. He'll probably fall asleep at about ten and then you can carry him up.

Sorry but I totally disagree with you on this. Parents need child-free time in the evenings and having a 4-yr old rushing round full of beans until he collapses on the floor asleep at 10pm sounds like hell on earth. OP, you've probably got a lark and an owl in the making and I think the lying in bed idea bored might work but you'd need to have a committed approach to enforce it. Does he respond to an award system with a treat at the end of it? Perhaps reward your daughter as well (for what comes naturally!) so he gets what it's all about! Good luck.

Oh fair enough. It was just a thought.

7 pm is really early.
Surely better dd goes to bed 8 and up at 6 ?
But some kids need fewer hours sleep.

but he disturbs her by being up and down, he plays, reads and generally the happiest person on the planet between about 7 and 10!

It's bedtime - if he can't sleep he stays in bed quietly worn a book or a story app/CD

No getting up. No noise

Would taking them out for a run before bedtime help. I mean run, dinner then bath, type of thing. My ds2 don’t like sleep but will sleep if I get him tried enough. Going to the park with a ball usually helps me a lot. Or making him raise his brother. Both get tried and sleep quicker.

No advice from me I'm afraid carnberryfizz but we are in the same position.
Almost 4yr old keeps both siblings up and awake for hours. Running around, laughing, running in their rooms turning on their lights.
It's no fun for anyone so you have my sympathy.
We have tried the "stay in your bed its bedtime , lie quietly" but it seems to just encourage him

I've got a friend with a kid like this. They ended up homeschooling and accepting that the child is basically nocturnal. He's got some sort of adhd thing going on too so not neurotypical kid. He's learned to play quietly when other people are sleeping, sounds like yours needs to learn that too.

My 4.5 year old is wide awake at bedtime. He seems to be becoming a night owl and regardless of what we do does not fall asleep until 9.15. We have had months of difficult bedtimes and have now given in to a later bedtime. It’s not ideal and I would like my evenings back but firm boundaries were just not working. We were persisting with a 7.30 bedtime and getting meltdowns, running and messing around and tears. We tried sticker charts, rewards, punishments, putting him back in bed.

I would also welcome any advice but it seems that maybe some children have different body clocks?