Baby waking all night and I no longer see the point

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Baby is just shy of five months old and had slept well from birth, up to about a month ago he would do 5 or 6 hour stretches at the beginning of the night and settled well after a feed.

But now he’s waking every 1-2 hours most nights. Last night he did a 6 hour stretch and I thought we might be coming out of this hell but no, I’ve been up all night again.

This is my second baby. My first baby slept terribly and was not a very settled baby (he is now 2). I ‘lost’ the first year of my eldest’s life to postnatal depression; I cried pretty much every day for the first year of his life.

I am slipping down that path again and I feel a lot of it is due to sleep deprivation, as well as the social isolation of lockdown. I am so tired and I can’t think straight. I feel like I’m losing my mind. I find myself not really wanting to be alive anymore as I feel alone and joyless. I am feeling really cross with my baby waking up all night. I don’t know why he slept for six hours straight last night and then not even two hours in a row tonight. I am so, so sad that I am falling down the postnatal depression rabbit hole again. I had all of these plans in place for coping well second time round and the Covid situation has just wrecked them all- childcare for my eldest a couple of days a week, which would allow me to do some exercises each week and attend some baby groups with the baby. That would be good bonding time with the baby but also get me out and about with other mums.
My husband works from 6am Monday to Friday so there is no rest. I’m just alone and exhausted. I don’t know how to find joy in life when I am so exhausted. I don’t know how to cope with this.

[Indecisivelurcher]

I guess it depends on your definition of sleep training maybe, I think pick up put down for example is something that is only really suitable for younger babies. I guess with sleep consultants they have to draw a line somewhere, or they'd have panicked mums of

[Indecisivelurcher]

Panicked mums of 4 week olds asking why their baby was broken, when actually it's normal! Plus lots of sleep consultants will recommend methods like controlled crying, which guidance says 6m age minimum.

I suppose what I was trying to get over was, there's little incentive for your baby to change, they wake, they get a feed and a cuddle, they can nap in the day, life is good. But, it's not working for you!!! So personally I think try to put steps in place now, whatever that means, don't wait for 6m magic number.

[Hodgewell1]

@JustALittleChange - I liked your suggestion of moving from milk to water in the night and bigger gaps. At what age did you start to give water and did you use a bottle or some other type of cup?

[5ambreakfastclub]

Hi OP, just wanted to add in more words of solidarity. I have a 2.5 DD who was a terrible sleeper and now have 13 week old DD who is awful. Even worse than her sister which I didn't think was possible. She has woken up pretty much every hour for the last 4 weeks or so. I'm utterly exhausted. My DH has been working overseas since she was 2 weeks old ( he'll be back in a couple of weeks thank god!!) and thanks to Covid restrictions my family have been unable to come and help me. The only way I can get more than an hours sleep has been to let her sleep on my chest ( not good I know) but she won't even do that anymore. She thrashes and wiggles and shouts and I was almost in tears last night after what felt like the 76th wake up. She normally goes down at 7 until 11 (if I'm lucky) or 930 if I'm unlucky. Luckily DD1 sleeps usually through the night but has occasionally woken up when her sister has been sleeping which is just soul destroying. I don't have any practical advice but you are not alone. I plan to sleep train at 6 months. At this point I'm prepared to do anything to get some sleep.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Sorry for not posting on here in a while. I keep meaning to and then get distracted by the DCs.

@5ambreakfastclub you poor thing, that sounds unbearable. You must be counting down the days til your DH gets back.

Baby DS has had a rough few nights. Saturday night was up every 20-90 minutes. Last night wasn’t much better. He just can’t seem to get into a deep sleep at night.

I don’t know how I’m going to sleep train though. It’s due to be so hot here the next couple of weeks so bedroom windows are open. We are in a semi and the baby’s room adjoins the house next door. Toddler DS has his bedroom next door to the baby too and, despite putting big pieces of furniture like the wardrobes against the shared wall, the sound still really travels.

I think my plan is to get a sleep consultant involved in September when, hopefully, the weather will have consistently cooled down for a while. I may start whatever plan on a weekend so that maybe toddler DS can stay somewhere else for a couple of nights with DH so that I can do whatever I need to do without keeping the whole house awake. Doesn’t help with the neighbours though.

[gubbinsy]

I remember this. It's horrendous and what you said about the nights being so long and lonely really resonated. It will pass. I did start taking sertraline (was also breastfeeding). It was a very low dose but did help - just took the really low feelings of hopelessness away - I was having intrusive self harm thoughts which were scary!

Things that helped - no advice on the getting them to sleep longer but I found it really helped me to stop thinking they might and try to accept where we were. That meant thinking of being in bed as a rest time rather than feeling crap and angry that I would be tired the next day. Doesn't stop you being tired and feeling crap but helped me relax and rest rather than being angry and tense all night.

I know you said DH can't do nights wakings but what we did was I would go to bed as soon as kids were asleep and he would deal with anything up to 11/12. That way I'd generally get a 3 hour stretch at the beginning of the night. It's crap because you miss time without kids but for us for a few months getting me as much sleep as I could was the most beneficial thing.

Sending you big hugs and coffee. Remember to be kind to yourself. Get DH to take kids out of the house at a weekend and rest for a couple of hours. It's a cliche but this too shall pass was my mantra during this time - it did of course but it seems endless while you're in it!

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Just don’t feel like I can cope anymore. Life is so joyless. I feel angry all of the time. I have no patience. I haven’t been able to stop crying today. Toddler hasn’t napped which means a horrible afternoon and it’s just the last straw. I don’t feel like I can deal with this at all. I honestly just want to walk out of the house and never come back. I hate being a mum. I have literally nothing left for myself. I can’t see anything good ahead. I’m trying but I can’t. Keep trying to tell DH how much I’m struggling but it doesn’t seem to help

[gubbinsy]

You sound very low. This is really hard and I can hear the absolute desperation in your posts. I would urge you to call your GP. I know you're not keen on taking medication but with a child under 1 you'd generally be fast tracked for other mental health support.

I'm no expert but this sounds like more than the crippling tiredness although that's not helping. PND and tiredness are an awful combination and the relentless nature of life with two small children makes everything seem bleak. Please call a GP or try to get your partner to see how desperate you're feeling

[Kate3150]

Oh darling sending you a big big cuddle.
You need support, when you say you keep trying to tell your DH but it doesn’t help, what do you mean?
I wish there was something I could do or say to help xx

[smilingskies]

Hey there, I'm so sorry you are feeling so bad :(
Is there anyone you could invite over/visit for a while like a friend or family? At least for a few hours just so you feel less alone
Same as Kate I'm not sure what to say but I hope you can find something to help you

[SacreBleeurgh]

@LetTheBirdsSing so much of what you are posting resonates with me and my experience with DD1 - I can say with absolute certainty now that I was deep in the throes of PND - obviously the sleep deprivation was the major proponent of that, but I, like you, was reluctant to address it head on and use medication as an adjunct to support myself. Now with the benefit of hindsight I can see that this was the illness talking. Medication is not the solution, you’re absolutely right, but it CAN and most likely WILL help and give you that little bit of breathing space to get through the day. I ended up not seeking help and I deeply regret that three years on - I’ve now got DD2 and although she is quite possibly a worse sleeper (up every hour from 7.30-11.30, co-sleep from 11.30 and she’s still up at least every 2.5 hours) - but the experience is like night and day as this time I’m not unwell. The experience of DD1 however has left me a shadow of my former self in terms of my self-confidence, drive and self-belief - I WISH I had sought help instead of now having to pick up the pieces of the best part of 2 years of untreated PND. By all means continue to attempt to contact the charity, and PLEASE reach out again to friends, family, GP, HV, perinatal mental health services, anyone who will listen!! But most of all please don’t be afraid to help yourself. This will get better. You need to be well. Your children need you to be well. You can do this.

[Indecisivelurcher]

I don't know what the age is but piriton can really help them to get into a deeper sleep when they've got a cough, relaxes everything enough for them to stop coughing until they're deeper in.

I think you need to ask your dh to do a night, and then you have a night staying with a friend or relative. Or better yet, 2 nights.

And I think you should sleep train now.

[Indecisivelurcher]

I've just remembered that you are breastfeeding though so you can't stay elsewhere. But you can still tell your h to do 2 nights, and only wake you for feeds. Your dh can sleep in with baby. You can put earplugs in and white noise. He's only to wake you if he feels sure baby needs feeding.

[Indecisivelurcher]

You could do this every weekend.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

These kind replies are making me cry. So kind to reply to a woman you’ve never before and offer you such supportive words. Reading with my phone and head under duvet so as not to wake the baby and getting very overheated.

Trying to make a plan in my head. Have asked DH for a block of time every weekend to have to myself to sleep rest or whatever. Have told him (via text because I go to bed with the baby so we don’t see each other properly in the evenings and he leaves for work before I’m up) that I’m pretty depressed and need to make a plan.

Sorry really overheating. Will reply more tomorrow but thank you lovely mumsnetters for your kindness

[Trenisenne]

I'm so sorry you're struggling. I remember feeling somewhat like this with number 2 (similar age gap with my first who wasn't a terribly good sleeper, either). I did take sertraline in the end and it helped a bit and was pretty easy to give up. I understand why you wouldn't want to though.

A couple of thoughts

• if your toddler is still waking, and that stops your husband helping, then maybe it's easier to address the toddler sleeping at the moment?
• I'm not sure what the Covid restrictions are at the moment, but could you get a babysitter to do the 8-midnight slot, with expressed milk if needed. Or someone early in the morning so you can sleep in?
• I finally took mine to a sleep consultant, but I guess you've decided on that anyway. Frankly, I'd be tempted to start now so that at least you feel like you're doing something - the one I used didn't really involve much crying so it didn't bother my toddler
• I did end up using a dummy with both of mine. It worked to get us down to two or three wakes per night, but we then had to cut it out entirely to get to zero.

[AnnaBegins]

So much love and sympathy for you, you are clearly an awesome mum.
My first was exactly like this and my second also but later on (8 months). With my first, the No Cry Sleep Solution worked wonders, it is not a quick fix, a very gently gradual withdrawal aimed at getting them to link sleep cycles themselves.
With my second, we didn't get the same miracles but she now only wakes once a night and has done since 11 months. She's hungry then (breastfed).
Interestingly my son slept better when breastfed than formula fed! You probably know this but the milk you produce at nighttime has sleepy hormones. So you're helping just by feeding!
As it's hot, maybe a fan in baby's room for airflow and also white noise?
And defo get dh to do a weekend night shift each week! Express if baby will take a bottle or have a plan that you feed e.g. twice in the night but the other wake ups are his problem.

[Ghost9525]

Sleepy cream from lush after the bath and white noise from YouTube plays for ten hours really helps to get mine to sleep although mine are 1&3 but the sleepy cream really does work x

[sausagepastapot]

I haven't rtft so sorry if I'm repeating. We tried:

White noise (a fan on all night)
Baby massage before bed (Youtube has loads)
Sleep spray (brand name This Works)
Lush sleepy cream
Socks on underneath a sleeping bag as we suspected they woke because they had cold feet
Gentle, sleepy scented fabric wash on the bedding
Weaning a few weeks early
Top up formula bottle before bed

It is the absolute worst time and you have all my sympathy. I too wanted to end my life for a few months. I still have flashbacks of it now and it makes me honestly feel sick (they're 5 and 7 now)

Every night done is another night closer to them sleeping through.
You have just got to keep going and be honest with your GP and take all the help you can get.

[Perinatalnursemum]

[quote SacreBleeurgh]@LetTheBirdsSing so much of what you are posting resonates with me and my experience with DD1 - I can say with absolute certainty now that I was deep in the throes of PND - obviously the sleep deprivation was the major proponent of that, but I, like you, was reluctant to address it head on and use medication as an adjunct to support myself. Now with the benefit of hindsight I can see that this was the illness talking. Medication is not the solution, you’re absolutely right, but it CAN and most likely WILL help and give you that little bit of breathing space to get through the day. I ended up not seeking help and I deeply regret that three years on - I’ve now got DD2 and although she is quite possibly a worse sleeper (up every hour from 7.30-11.30, co-sleep from 11.30 and she’s still up at least every 2.5 hours) - but the experience is like night and day as this time I’m not unwell. The experience of DD1 however has left me a shadow of my former self in terms of my self-confidence, drive and self-belief - I WISH I had sought help instead of now having to pick up the pieces of the best part of 2 years of untreated PND. By all means continue to attempt to contact the charity, and PLEASE reach out again to friends, family, GP, HV, perinatal mental health services, anyone who will listen!! But most of all please don’t be afraid to help yourself. This will get better. You need to be well. Your children need you to be well. You can do this.[/quote]
I totally agree. I think you are experiencing some post natal depression, it's more common that people think. I urge you to speak to someone and don't try to cope with this on your own. I don't know what area you live in but I work for a perinatal mental health team and I know that we would accept a referral from a GP if they had told me what you have spoken about.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Every night done is another night closer to them sleeping through @sausagepastapot I read that the other night and found it a really comforting thought, thank you.

Today I’ve had three coffees and a Diet Coke. Not ideal. Tried to manage without the third coffee but I was really struggling to do anything except lie down on the living room floor, which I did but you know how toddlers can instantly sniff out any hint of vulnerability...so of course then DS1 wanted about a million books reading and to play games that involved jumping on my lap and pulling my hair. So coffee it was. I’m wondering if there’s anything else I can do to physically cope better with the broken sleep short term. Took the kids out for a walk locally but because it’s so hot the fresh air didn’t perk me up.

@Ghost9525 interesting that a couple of you have recommended Lush cream. Sounds good. Without wishing to derail, I can’t bring myself to shop there right now as I really dislike them as a company. Maybe if I get tired enough, ha!

I have a very rough plan in my head that I’m going to try sleep training on a Friday night at some point soon. No point starting in the next week or two as it’s insanely hot where we are and that will disrupt both DCs sleep as we just can’t get the bedrooms cool enough at night.

Will start weaning in a couple of weeks although don’t expect that to make any great difference until DS is further along with food and eating three solid meals a day.

Although...am wondering...since starting this thread I put baby DS down awake (and not immediately after a feed) for his three naps a day in his cot and he takes himself off to sleep no bother. Often it’s half an hour or more after he’s had a feed so no feed to sleep-ing going on. He’s usually linking sleep cycles for the first nap of the day and now for the first time is doing it for his second nap as well (although he sometimes has a bit of a cry after 40-45 mins before dropping back off).

I do feed him at bed time right before putting him down but he’s almost always awake when I put him. Isn’t being able to link sleep cycles independently supposed to be the big holy grail for improving sleep? Not really sure what sleep training is going to do for me, if anything? Is it at all likely that DS will start to link sleep cycles more regularly at night of his own accord?

First wake up of the night is consistently 3 hours after bedtime or less. Really feel like I’ve hit a wall with exhaustion but also feel so fed up of not having an evening. I am just ‘on’ with being a mum all day and then on duty all night it feels .

Monday was awful. Felt really i different towards the DC and definitely felt depressed. Yesterday felt much more ‘normal’ despite not having had much sleep the night before. Exhausted, yes, but felt connected to the DC and didn’t feel like I was on the edge of not coping all day as was the case on Monday. So is that depression ? I don’t know.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Well I got to see how things are when the chips are down tonight. I have been feeling unwell all day. Physical effects of exhaustion I guess. Felt really rundown. Went to bed with the baby as usual. He wasn’t settling. I think I stroked his back a bit and then he started blowing raspberries so I left him to it. I must have dropped off.

After a while, maybe half an hour later, he started crying so I picked him up. Tried to feed him a bit but he obviously wasn’t hungry (I’d put him to bed max an hour before) so I tried to put him down and he started to cry. Got really fed up so I went downstairs and told DH he needed to settle the baby. I’ve never done this before since DS was born I don’t think. DH looked rather gobsmacked to have his chilled out evening interrupted. My heart is pounding with stress, frustration, I don’t know so I lie down on the sofa and tried to gather myself.

Baby is really screaming his head off and then I hear my toddler crying so I go up to give him a cuddle. DH came out onto the landing and ordered me to deal with the bang, says he can’t settle him but can settle our toddler. Suggested I feed him. Ha. As if I wouldn’t have tried that straight away if baby was hungry. I tell him no, he needs to settle baby for once. He tells me I’m selfish, it’s not fair on the children (toddler is sat on my lap obvs confused at being woken up).

Well I gave in after a while. Fed baby again and am typing this feeling SO angry. I messaged my DH to tell him I am done. He could have taken the baby for a walk or a drive or just another room in the house to try to settle him without waking toddler. But he couldn’t be bothered could be. Baby is my problem.

I messaged him and said it’s not fair that I’ve ceased to count as a person. I never ask for help at night and I should be able to do that without a horrible response and being treated like a selfish mother and person.

So what am I supposed to do. I can’t stop crying. Baby has fallen asleep in my arms. I don’t want this life. I’ve told DH I hate him and that I can’t do this anymore, that I’m going. Where, I don’t know.

Obviously can’t sleep train this baby as he has a right pair of lungs on him and wakes my older DS as I expected.

Calling GP tomorrow. Crying a lot tonight obviously and not sleeping much. Feeling so much despair.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Any suggestions for what I tell the GP receptionist when I try to get an appointment. I simply cannot say that I am having a mental health crisis. It’s not possible.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

I hear you! My baby (third) is now ten weeks and I'm also exhausted. She naps for a maximum of 10 mins or so during the day and bedshares with me at night so I don't get any quality sleep really-at least not deep sleep. What I would give for "proper" sleep!!

I EBF and plan to for as long as she needs it. My last son breastfed until he was 3.

I must admit I do resent my OH for literally falling asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow every night and waking up about 8.30 am every morning completely oblivious to me sorting her out throughout the night.

And he wonders why I'm not interested in sex!!

[LetTheBirdsSing]

@Nicknamegoeshere that sounds incredibly tough. I got the whole “you’re the one that chose to breastfeed” last night, which is really unhelpful. I’d be doing all the night feeds whether it was breastfeeding or bottle so...

I am hoping to get to six months with the breastfeeding and I’ll see how things are then. Last night I desperately wanted to be done with the whole thing but kept repeating the “don’t quit on a bad day” mantra to myself.