Baby waking all night and I no longer see the point

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Baby is just shy of five months old and had slept well from birth, up to about a month ago he would do 5 or 6 hour stretches at the beginning of the night and settled well after a feed.

But now he’s waking every 1-2 hours most nights. Last night he did a 6 hour stretch and I thought we might be coming out of this hell but no, I’ve been up all night again.

This is my second baby. My first baby slept terribly and was not a very settled baby (he is now 2). I ‘lost’ the first year of my eldest’s life to postnatal depression; I cried pretty much every day for the first year of his life.

I am slipping down that path again and I feel a lot of it is due to sleep deprivation, as well as the social isolation of lockdown. I am so tired and I can’t think straight. I feel like I’m losing my mind. I find myself not really wanting to be alive anymore as I feel alone and joyless. I am feeling really cross with my baby waking up all night. I don’t know why he slept for six hours straight last night and then not even two hours in a row tonight. I am so, so sad that I am falling down the postnatal depression rabbit hole again. I had all of these plans in place for coping well second time round and the Covid situation has just wrecked them all- childcare for my eldest a couple of days a week, which would allow me to do some exercises each week and attend some baby groups with the baby. That would be good bonding time with the baby but also get me out and about with other mums.
My husband works from 6am Monday to Friday so there is no rest. I’m just alone and exhausted. I don’t know how to find joy in life when I am so exhausted. I don’t know how to cope with this.

[Indecisivelurcher]

Ah op I feel your pain. I did sleep training for my first on her 6m birthday. I was counting down the days... I was determined not to go the same way with my 2nd, but ended up in the same place via a circular route at 1yo and had to work with a consultant! Incidently she was brilliant and there was not lots of crying involved.

Do you think you could set 2 times for feeds and ask your partner to deal with wake ups outside of this time? Personally I'd probably have been a-blummin-wake in any case, irrespective of ear plugs. But a combination of set times for feeds and put up put down / pat and shush other times might improve things gradually over a couple of weeks and set you on the right path, meaning any additional sleep training you need to do later on is less hard.

I would also suggest looking into how much sleep your little one of getting overall, could he /she be overtired? Worth looking up one of those tables on baby centre or alternative. It could be your bab is overtired which will only make things worse, as stress hormones will make them fight sleep. Especially if skipping naps. Bedtime can be anytime from 5pm if necessary!! My ds went to bed at 5:30pm for over a month. Which at least means you might be able to get a few hours in before the first wake up.

Sorry for forgetting half way through if you have a girl or a boy

[Indecisivelurcher]

Ps I went for blood tests last week to check I'm not actually deficient in something. I'm pretty sure I'm just knackered!!! So know exactly where you're coming from. Solidarity. And coffee.

[Rainycloudyday]

Your husband needs to do more at night. He can’t feed but he can wind, settle etc. Why isn’t he on duty from say 8-12pm to give you an early block of sleep? Breastfeeding doesn’t justify him snoring all night in the spare room while you go through this hell and if he thinks it does then give him the baby and a bottle and go to bed. You simply cannot live with this level of tired, you will break.

Having a baby doesn’t have to be like this, and it really shouldn’t when you have another perfectly capable healthy adult in the house. He needs to step up. I feel for you, I’ve been there and it’s hell.

[JustALittleChange]

I honestly completely understand that feeling. But we have now pretty reliably has that since DS was nearly 7 months old. I wouldn't have believed it where you are either. It seemed like a ridiculous utopian dream.

I should also say that the Little Ones 2 hour naps were a rare thing for me until DS was about 8 months or more too. I found that he'd sleep for 40 mins or so and then wouldn't go back unless I was cuddling him the whole time. After encouragement from my DH I embraced it and ended up really looking forward to my hour plus of sitting in a dark room in the middle of the day with wireless headphones and an audiobook with a sleeping baby in my arms. I kind of miss it now. I suppose that's half the battle - knowing what to fight and what to adapt to!

[RubaiyatOfAnyone]

I know how you feel OP - dd2 is 7.5 months old, and i night weaned/ sleep trained about 3 weeks ago in desperation. She now sleeps 8pm-5am, has a dawn feed and back down for an hour (she has always done this and i don’t mind because it means we get up at a reasonable time).

We are both SO much happier with longer sleep. Like you, sleep deprivation mimics depression exactly for me. The difference is - enough sleep=instant lifting of mood.

What helped prior to sleep training - DH giving me a 3hr nap on Sat & Sun. Remembering that the 4-month regression is temporary. Going to bed when she did. Good news is that at her screamiest during sleep training, dd1 never stirred and had no idea what i was talking about the next day. They really do sleep deeply. I am sorry - this too shall pass.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

I wouldn’t ask my DH to help at night for a few reasons. He deals with the toddler if he wakes at night, which can happen a couple of times a week. He also works long hours in a very stressful, senior job. We tried to get him to help out with the (frequent!) night wakings when my eldest was a baby and it just meant that we were both exhausted, grumpy and fought lots. I find it works better when he’s reasonably well rested and can take the lead with the two year old on the weekend etc. He’s quite keen for me to go down the formula route but I feel like that might not necessarily make things better and I have all sorts of complicated love/hate feelings around breastfeeding, don’t think I’m ready to stop yet.

@Indecisivelurcher Interesting idea about setting times for feeds. I guess I’m nervous to get it wrong- what if some nights he’s simply more hungry/thirsty due to growth spurt or not feeding as much during the day. This is one of the reasons that I’m really not a baby person- I find their inability to talk and having to constantly guess their needs really quite anxiety inducing. I did do something similar with my eldest on the advice of the sleep consultant- to leave at least three hours between night feeds so any wake ups after less than three hours were settled without a feed.....I have memories of this being deeply distressing and could take over an hour. I don’t feel like I have the energy to do that kind of thing and then look after two kids all day. God what am I going to do. What are the chances of his sleep just improving itself in the next few weeks without intervention...

[LetTheBirdsSing]

@RubaiyatOfAnyone thrilled and inspired to hear of your tale of improved sleep! Are your DC’s bedrooms next to each other?

Do you mind telling me a bit more about the method you used to night wean/sleep train and what was your baby’s sleep like beforehand?

[Indecisivelurcher]

I switched my eldest onto formula at 5.5m for this exact reason. Totally get you love /hate. I think spacing feeds is much more normal with bottle feeding so it helps with that. It also means your dh can help more. But it isn't a magic sleep bullet. Lots of wake ups are not for food. And you would lose that ultimate comforter. BUT it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You could have a go at combo feeding. Then your dh could do a dream feed, enabling you to go to bed earlier and get a chuck. Or to take over from 5am and leave you in bed. This could be formula or expressed milk. Totally depends on your little ones opinion on a bottle!

[IdblowJonSnow]

The feelings of depression and that you cant see your way forward are almost certainly triggered by the sleep deprivation. Its bloody horrible. It's used as a form of torture OP.
I'm sorry things are so hard. Please dont suffer in silence. Tell your husband and get him to take a few days off so he can help out more or so you can just sleep.
And please don't feel ashamed. You're so strong to keep on going.

[icedaisy]

The feelings of depression you speak of and just needing to sleep really hit home for me OP.

Dd was a horrendous sleeper, you name it, I tried it. I thought I was going to die. It was like walking in treacle. I was hallucinating, sick, broken.

Formal a didn't help with her.

A dummy helped us go from maybe one to two hours wakes, but then you have the lost dummy wakes.

A cranial osteopath helped greatly, probably got us to five hour stretches. I know that's not for everyone but it really helped both her and I.

She then went backwards again and by 14 months, satisfied there was no pain and watching her grumpy tired behaviour I then sleep trained.

Touch wood we got there.

Expecting baby two and already feel sick about sleep. Especially with her to watch as well.

Will certainly be seeing osteopath much faster, I joked he can be at delivery.

[RubaiyatOfAnyone]

Okay, so my circs are not entirely the same as yours (dd1 is 5 so no night wakings, and dd2 had had a very brief period (approx 1 week) of sleeping most of the night at about 5 months so i knew she was capable of it).

Generally dd2 (and 1) were rubbish sleepers - waking ever 2 hours, and often sleepily feeding for nearly an hour each time so i got v.little sleep. Even when we got out of the newborn “fourth trimester” which was every hour/45 mins it was something like bed at 8pm, wake at 10, 12, 2.30, 5 then up for the day c.7.30. I was averaging about 4 hours sleep a night and was zombie like.

What i did -

1. get the huckleberry app and log every nap and waking. Started off on 3 naps, and changed to 2 a day approx 6.5 months because she was really fighting the last one. This gave me exact timings for the next nap so no uncertainty. As i feed to sleep, i also logged feed times to begin with so i learnt that i had to go up exactly 30 mins before a scheduled nap time Because that was my average feeding time.
   
   
2. weaned off the dummy. It was great for help with newborn sleep when she was in the bedside crib, but rubbish for having to go into another room to replace multiple times a night. Did this gently by just not offering at nap times and gradually forgetting about it all together. Took 2-3 weeks.
   
   
3. took a deep breath and did full on sleep training. When she woke i went in and shushed/reassured but no feeding or picking up. Repeat a minute later, then 2 mins, 4 mins, 6,8 and then every 10 mins until she slept. Took 1hr 45 first night and a second 1 hour waking later in the night. One 50 mins waking second night. 20 mins third night. Slept through since. There was a LOT of screaming, but the tone was “annoyed” rather than hungry if that makes sense, and i had the reassurance of that random week earlier when she’s slept through 9-4 for a few days spontaneously, so i knew she could do it.

[SewingKit]

I will keep my fingers crossed your baby’s sleep improves before 6 months!
Also Ferber has a whole chapter on gentle nighttime weaning if you decide eventually to go down that path.

[Ginmonkey84]

I just want to say your not alone, it’s so hard. I say this as I sit in a sleep deprived state although my twins are much older I take my hat off to you dealing with a toodler also. We started combi feeding my husband does the 9/10pm feed and I go to bed around 8pm when the kids do. No time really to myself but like you I prioritise my sleep atm. It gives me a 4/5 hour stretch and it really makes the world of difference. I’m still tired but managing better. My little girl is 17weeks and the sleep regression is just shit but we will get there. Huge hugs x

[LetTheBirdsSing]

Had another rubbish night. First wake up at 10:30pm and then there were many wake ups after that. I think the longest stretch after that was maybe 90 minutes. I am feeling tearful and snappy. I feel SO alone. I’d give anything right now to be able to head out to a baby group and sing wind the sodding bobbin on repeat...just to see other faces and feel less alone.

@RubaiyatOfAnyone thanks for this- I used the huckleberry app for my eldest so have started tracking baby’s naps today. 45 and 38 minutes so far today. So we have crappy, short naps too as well as the awful night time sleep.

I know in my heart that the baby’s sleep won’t naturally get better. I know I’m going to be looking at sleep training at six months. It’s bringing back all sorts of awful memories with my eldest- crying, extreme guilt and even less sleep for quite a while as the wake ups were even longer when I wasn’t trying to feed back to sleep after every wake up. I just can’t see how any of that is going to be possible when my toddler is in the room next door, and then having to look after them both the next day when I’m zombiefied. Sorry, all very garbled. I guess I’m thinking out loud.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

@Ginmonkey84 twins and a 17 week old? No, I take my hat off to you!! In complete awe of parents of twins, I really am. Hoping that you are less exhausted very soon as you say, a 4-5 hour stretch goes a long way to feeling human doesn’t it

[Indecisivelurcher]

Ah @letthebirdssing (but I bet you don't want to hear another bloody dawn chorus... ) There are things you can start working on now to set yourself up for sleep training so that it's not this big horrific thing you're inevitably heading towards, so that even if you do sleep train at 6m or later, it's less awful in your eyes. Would you consider using a sleep consultant? They can be invaluable in assessing everything for you, giving you a clear plan, and getting everyone in the house on the same page. I'm honestly a convert, and I'm really tight plus really clued up on the science of sleep! We used sleepy moonkeeper, I think she's rebranded as sleep dreams baby. She has a Facebook page and website. It cost £200 for a 2 week support programme and honestly we got a lot more calls and emails than she lists. She helped us with my then 1yo ds, and then we went to her again for help with my then 4yo Dd, who she even took as a case study to the national forum of sleep consultants or whatever they're actually called!

Anyway I'm just saying I think that it's OK to get help, sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees, and it might not cost as much as you think.

[LetTheBirdsSing]

@Indecisivelurcher thank you for raising a laugh with the dawn chorus comment I haven’t completely lost my ability to find things funny at least.

I am definitely up for using a sleep consultant, I did so with my eldest. If I don’t have some sort of improvement with his sleep in the next month or so then I think a sleep consultant is the way forward as I just feel so useless, woolly headed and incapable so I definitely need someone to guide me along.

I think I’m just a bit in denial about everything- postnatal depression rearing it’s ugly head again. I SO wanted it to be different second time around. I was going to give it my all to stay mentally well but it’s been so hard under lockdown, so lonely, that I just haven’t been able to do the things I wanted to stay well. And the absolutely crap sleep has broken the camel’s back. I just want to cry in someone’s arms. I feel broken and useless. I was such a terrible mum to my eldest and I wanted to get it right this time. I told my gorgeous baby this one night last week. I told him I was sorry and that id wanted to be different for him

[userabcname]

Please don't beat yourself up OP! I too have had a shit sleeper and it was at 5 months (when all my nct friends were getting full nights of sleep or near enough, had all lost their baby weight and were starting to socialise in the evening because their babies were down for the night by 7pm so they could leave the house) that I felt at my lowest ebb. I had had no longer than 2 hours sleep. My delightful cherub was waking at least once before midnight for a feed and would then wake again at around 1am for a couple of hours of partying and no matter when he fell asleep he was up for the day at 5am. I was on my knees. All I can say is, it did gradually improve. At around 6.5 months he did a random 5 hour stint one night. After that the 4-5 hour stints became more regular. At about 8 months I did gentle night weaning and that cut wake ups down to once or twice. He slept through for the first time at about 13mo. He slept through consistently from 2yo. And guess what? Ds2 is a good sleeper and I did absolutely nothing differently! You aren't failing, it's not your fault and you sound like a caring, loving mum who is beyond exhausted! Try to rest as much as you can, eat lots of cake and if you think sleep training is the answer then DON'T feel guilty!

[ColourMeExhausted]

Some good advice here OP, I just wanted to reach out to you as someone who also had two non sleepers. The first year of DD's life I barely slept and the second was only a bit better. Then DS arrived and he wasn't great either. They are now 5 and 2 and both sleep through, with the very occasional exception. I'm telling you this because I want to give you hope, I honestly thought I'd never get through it and still have residual sleep anxiety. It was hell. But I survived. Through co sleeping, implementing a firm routine once I felt it was right to...and just giving it time. It will get better I promise...but be kind to yourself and accept all the help you can

[BuffaloMozzerella]

Hi OP sorry you're feeling like this. Lack of sleep is just horrendous.

So my tuppence worth

I sort of followed the blissful baby sleep routine - she has routines on her instagram page. The one thing it suggested which I felt made a difference was to wake baby up fully, change nappy and give them an expressed bottle of milk around 10.30-11pm. Our baby would be so full and sleepy after a big bottle and being disturbed she would doze off again easily and sometimes sleep until 5am which was like a miracle. It also meant my partner could give the bottle and I could sleep or have a break. I didn't always wake her, sometimes I gave her a dream feed but it was always with a bottle not a boob.

I think the idea of it is to break the reliance on the comfort of a nipple to go back to sleep.

I realise you might not have the energy for changes like this or expressing which is totally to be expected when you're utterly exhausted. And also depends on whether your baby takes a bottle or not.

I also bought the book by sleep consultant Lucy Wolfe who promotes gradual retreat. I tried this with my baby and it did work although it wasn't the no cry method I hoped it would be. My baby was furious at being patted and stroked, and not picked up and rocked to sleep. I did find though weirdly that after the first horrendous evening of trying it, where I would invariably give in, she would go to sleep without much fuss in the following nights after that. So perhaps it did work just not how I thought it would.

I know it's easy to say but I would take every bit of help and support you can get. Your mental health is too important.

[Chilledoutmuma]

Hey, I really think you need to phone your GP, you can make the time time as it’ll take 5-10 minutes and if the baby is crying, they will have to cry whilst you call.
I bought Blissful Baby Expert book (Instagram Blissfulbabyexpert and she has all of her routines on there for ages. My baby is 7 months old and at the start of lockdown when he was 3 months old I started the routine and I followed it to a T and the sleep was apt better and sleep training really didn’t involve too many tears. My baby likes his routine as he doesn’t become over tired and rarely cries.
Please just consider her page and book because there may be crying in the meantime spreading out feed but, it’ll be better for your babies to have you sleeping and feeling happier.
Do you have any friends you can meet up with? Put the two babies in a pram and go for a walk and maybe you’ll see people, and take a look at the peanut all!
I do feel sympathy for you, but Only you can do anything about it x

[Englishgirl9]

For some immediate respite, do you have family or a friend that could stay overnight and feed the baby with expressed milk so that you could recharge with a full night's sleep?

Or could they come over during the day to help out so you can take a long nap?

Or do shifts with your husband so that your put the toddler to bed and go to sleep then too, whilst he looks after the baby for a couple hours before your 'night shift' starts?

[Neeks888]

Can your husband have the baby for a couple of hours when he comes home from work so you can sleep? He should be trying to help you when he’s not at work.
Is the baby hungry when he wakes or just looking for comfort? Is he teething? Then some calpol could help.

[Flamingolingo]

Ahh gosh yeah I’ve been there. The tiredness is awful, and the lockdown must make it unbearable. No baby group, no mum friends to go and stare into a coffee with, zombie like. It’s got to be really hard this year.

For me, it was co-sleeping that made a world of difference. Started at about 9m with my eldest and earlier with my second. Assuming you’re in a double bed, if you take most of the pillows away (leave one for you) and just put a blanket there for you, you can put baby down on the other half of the bed. I find that works so much better in terms of rest. And not being upright unless you really have to.

[devildeepbluesea]

I just wanted to reassure you that sleep training doesn't make you some sort of inadequate mother. You said yourself: baby's sleep is unlikely to magically improve.

I firmly believe that learning to sleep is an important life skill, and one which is hugely underrated on MN. Gentle sleep training and night weaning are going to make for a much, much happier baby and mum in the not-even-that-long-run. So pick your method and go for it when you're ready. I second PP's approach to treat it like an experiment. That's exactly what we did, and it seemed to make it feel less emotional. I didn't get as worked up which meant that DD didn't either.