How to stop feeding to sleep

[June628]

I have a 5.5 mo DD who I currently feed to sleep around 7pm. I’d like to stop the association between BF and sleep but not sure how to go about it. I find it really hard to settle her in any other way as she gets really upset whenever I put her down in her cot. She’s never drowsy so I don’t know how to do “ drowsy but awake”
For daytime naps she sleeps in her pram because she refuses the cot entirely and just cries. Would love to get her to nap in there in the day but she won’t really feed to sleep during the day anyway. She’ll soon grow out of the carrycot bit and not sure she’ll nap in the other bit very easily- it doesn’t look very comfy.
Any help gratefully received.

I haven’t got any really helpful tips, but I’m in exactly the same position as you. I walk for miles each day with DS to make sure he’s well slept. He doesn’t really feed to sleep in the day either as he wakes as soon as I move,m. I did start a similar post and was suggested gradual retreat. That seems to annoy him even more. We put DS in his own room two nights ago and currently have a bedtime routine of bath, massage, nappy, pjs,sleeping bag, feed (but kept awake) then read a book and in bed awake. I’ve started off trying to push the feed back by keeping him awake, then reading the story. I read to start any changes at night because the sleep pressure is greatest. The idea is to gradually remove the feed back so it is at the beginning of the routine before bath, although on the baby sleep made simple site it suggests the attached routine, but I’m just a bit worried that the feed so close to bed will keep the association there. Sorry not much help but please know you aren’t alone in this, I’m in exactly the same position.

Ps I’m pretty sure the ‘drowsy but awake’ term is a load of crap 🤣🤣🤣🤣Neither of my babies have been ‘drowsy but awake!’ More like ‘p**d off but won’t sleep!’

@Freya1990 thank you so much for your reply!! Nice to know I’m not alone. How’s it gone since your DS has been in his own room? Does he fall asleep after you read him a story?
I tried reading DD a story but she just looks at me like I’m crazy haha definitely doesn’t make her drowsy! The problem is she also hates baths they seem to stress her out rather than calm her down so I always end up feeding straight after as it’s the only thing that helps. I’m really worried about what I’m going to do when she’s in her own room as currently I try to very swiftly move her into the next2me crib if she’s fallen asleep feeding but it’s another reason I want to stop it soon so that she will go into her cot more calmly. As soon as she touched the crib if she isn’t fully asleep her arms start flailing and she’s wide awake haha!
I agree drowsy but awake is such rubbish!!

Feed your baby when they wake up. Or shortly after. Then he won't "need" the feed before sleep due to actual hunger

That's the only tip I have but that obviously won't be the only piece of the puzzle that will help

Sorry. But drowsy but awake always worked for
My baby when she was smaller (she's 8 months now). Now I can put her down wide awake and she can take herself to sleep

I had enough one day and just stopped - fed her before her bath, gave her a cuddle and a story, popped her in her cot, song, shhhh, pat pat pat, left her awake and walked out. She cried for a bit, i went back in, shhhh, pat pat pat, she chilled out, i left, she cried, i went back in, shhhh, pat pat pat, she chilled out, i left, she cried, she grumbled, she fell asleep. Took maybe 20 minutes.

@PrayingandHoping wow that’s the dream!! Every time I put her down and her eyes ping wide open I have visions of that being possible 😂

If she hates the cot, maybe try putting her in it with toys while she's wide awake, fed dry and happy, play with her in it, sit in the room, help her feel secure and happy in it during the day, and then try stopping feeding to sleep

@Somethingorotherorother I’ll try that, thank you! I let her chew on Ewen’s ears in it today, thought that might help 😂

@June628 are you looking for a pathway,things you can do and see progress on that will ultimately aim in baby being put down awake? This shouldn't involve crying but may take a long time.

Or are you looking to be able to put baby down awake soonish, like in the next few weeks? Entirely possible but will involve crying.

Don't bath her in the evening if she doesn't enjoy it. Create a new sleep routine. Maybe try soothing music and darkness for the final feed so she is feeling warm and rested before you pop her in her cot.

@BabySleepTeacherUK I’m in no immediate rush and would rather avoid crying if possible

@June628 I’ve slept better since he’s been in his own room actually, I was waking at every cry/grunt before and was hyper alert. He still wakes 3 times a night for a feed which is high for his age from what I’ve read so it probably is more feeding to sleep association than hunger. Could DD be getting stimulated from baths because she is over tired? If you move the bath bath by 10/15 mins does that stop her getting upset? I know when DS is overtired as he makes lots of noise during his massage. I have read that some babies just hate baths though. 🤷🏻‍♀️
With DS it took ages keeping him awake while feeding before putting him in bed, it definitely wasn’t something that happened over night.

@PrayingandHoping My gosh I am so envious of you! What is your secret?? 😆

@June628 I can also sympathise, I used to feed on our bed lying down, wait 3 mins when I’d finally managed to extract myself from him, move off the bed, wait another 3 mins scoop up and transfer to cot. The amount of times those eyes pinged open and I knew it was all over. 🤦🏼‍♀️It’s so demoralising.

@Freya1990 lol I don't think I've done anything in particular. Because she was so small she had to fed to routine from day 0 so I've never done the baby led thing... she was often woken for feeds so we fell into a feed and sleep routine.

Personally I think routines are great. You shouldn't force your baby into one but find it between u find your way. That's my thoughts as to why she's a great sleeper

I always fed my ds to sleep when they were little. Ds3 would fall asleep from awake but only in his pushchair, outside, in the day! When I decided to stop feeding to sleep I followed the gradual retreat method (and as they were over 6 months a gradual increase in length of times between feeds at night ).

Initially they were not impressed about not being fed to sleep (it was after all all they knew) but I rocked, sang, shushed, whatever until they fell asleep. I never left them to cry but they did cry. I did this for three nights or so and then gradually reduced how much support I gave them to fall asleep - again never leaving them to cry.

I found the method in the book 'teach your child to sleep' by the Millpond Clinic. The book is fantastic with different methods for different ages and different sleep problems. It is factual and does not 'preach' about one method. You pick the method to suit you and your lo. Best book I ever bought!!!

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. We were always told that bedtime should be 30 minutes or less but she just needs longer to wind down and less interaction with us. If we read to her she gets far too excited to sleep. So we do bath a bit earlier, dressed for bed, breastfeed, clean teeth, 15 minutes of wind down sat on our lap with the TV on (not perfect but works) and then up to bed awake in the cot. There were definitely some tears when we first broke the feed to sleep association but she now goes down absolutely fine and sleeps through.
I'd love to read her a bedtime story every night but she just sees it as playtime so we make it up in the day!
I think what I'm trying to say is, for us, it helped to find the key to what chilled out our daughter for that wind down period which is so important. Books, massage, music, twinkly lights etc didn't do it for her.

Thank you all so much for your replies! It’s nice to know it’s possible and we’ll get there eventually. I think finding a routine that chills hers out is the key and really important. Just because the classic bath then story might not work for her doesn’t mean nothing will so I just have to figure out what that is.

[quote June628]@BabySleepTeacherUK I’m in no immediate rush and would rather avoid crying if possible[/quote]
I’d like to stop the association between BF and sleep but not sure how to go about it

In that case if' suggest a plan whereby you first just aim to unlatch baby before asleep, but hold baby in your arms (not feeding, but still in cradle hold) until asleep.

Then over time, unlatch sooner with the aim that baby goes to sleep in your arms, rather than sucking at the breast. You are then not feeding to sleep., which was your aim.

From that point, start holding baby in your arms to go to sleep, but work on how quickly you put baby down from being asleep in your arms. It might firstly be 10 mins into a deep sleep, then 1 minute into a deep sleep, then put down in a light sleep to settle into a deep sleep in the cot, then put down just into a light sleep, then just before going to sleep, then a minute or two before going to sleep, just as eyes droop. And so on, you get the idea.

This isnt a qiuick fix plan though, it will take slow, gradual change over several weeks and months. But should be doable with little crying.