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2 year old constant waking

20 replies

bez91 · 04/07/2020 01:18

Hi all, DD is 2 and 8 months. Wakes at 5-5:30am every morning and has done since birth, tried everything and nothing works. Sleep consultant couldn't help with this.

The last 8 weeks as well as waking at this ridiculous time she is also waking in the night for around an hour, whining/crying wanting us to stay in the room with her so getting anything more than a 3 hour stretch of sleep is impossible.

She's starting to drop her daytime nap, some days she'll nap and others she won't. On the days she naps it takes over 1 hour for her to fall to sleep at bedtime (7:30pm) so we generally let her have a quick 20-30 minute catnap which seems to aid bedtime and stop the absolute meltdown come 5pm.

I think all this waking is due to over tiredness but we can't break the cycle. We've asked her if she wants a light in her bedroom - no.
When you ask her why she's awake she replies she doesn't know. Tried a gro-clock several times, she understands the principle yet ignores it.

I thought by this age she may sleep to a reasonable time and the night wakings would cease 😫 I'm just utterly knackered. Any advise would be appreciated

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 04/07/2020 03:53

She's still very small...they're changing constantly...this is just a tricky period and it will calm down.

As a side note...waking up at 5.or 5.30 is not unusual and is considered a reasonable waking time.

The waking in the night could be due to her wanting a wee...is she fully toilet trained? Does she use a pullup?

Is something making a noise at that time and disturbing her? Perhaps a neighbour or a boiler or something?

BlackSwan · 04/07/2020 04:02

In the interests of getting through this alive: if you let her into your bed will she sleep?
Agree 5am waking is just normal for some kids though. Mine included

jessstan2 · 04/07/2020 04:05

Mine would have been the same but slept with us so we all had a good night's sleep. It seemed perfectly natural to do so.

bez91 · 04/07/2020 05:52

Thanks all!

@FortunesFave Yes she's potty trained, sometimes she will use when she wakes up although she usually still kicking off for the next hour afterwards. There's no noise waking her up.

@BlackSwan
@jessstan2
She rarely settles back in our bed, if she does she problem is my husband is up at 5:30am weekdays sometimes earlier so it still wouldn't be beneficial to her getting more sleep

05:50 now. She woke at 00:30 last night for 1.5hours. Then again at 05:10 and I've been taking her back to bed since then

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 04/07/2020 09:38

Could you describe the process of her going to sleep, from fully awake until she's asleep.

What happens at bedtime?
What happens in these night wake ups?
What happens at naptime?

Is she in a cot or a bed? If a bed, when did that change?

Is she in a nappy at night?

bez91 · 04/07/2020 09:51

@BabySleepTeacherUK
Bedtime - have dinner about 17:45
18:10 will watch a tv programme
18:30 - bath
19:00 - downstairs for quiet time, maybe a story although she'll rarely sit still. Very small cup of milk then bed at 19:30

Wake ups - depending whether she is tantrumming or not we'll just walk her back to her bedroom numerous times telling her it's sleep time/night time, (this can happen up to 80 times!) she'll tell us to sit by the wall next to the door (we usually hang around outside the door reassuring her we're there) same applies to early wakings

Naps - she won't sleep without being in the buggy or car, been the case for about a year. She's at nursery 2 days a week for nap time and she will sometimes sleep with the group but this is becoming less frequent

We took the side off her cot since January and took to it really well

Not in a nappy, fully potty trained and never has an accident at night 😊

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 04/07/2020 10:06

Does she settle easily after her milk at bedtime? Or does she keep getting up like at wake ups?

bez91 · 04/07/2020 10:24

She has her milk downstairs (cold - it's how she prefers it) it's out of a cup so it doesn't really settle her it's just a drink rather than a comfort x

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 04/07/2020 12:48

Sorry what I meant was, when you take her to bed at bedtime (after milk etc) and she gets into bed - what happens from then?

Does she usually stay in bed and go to sleep easily? What are you and she doing until she goes to sleep?

bez91 · 04/07/2020 13:14

If she's exhausted ie not napped she'll generally only get out of bed once/twice or just zonk straight out otherwise it takes around an hour of in and out of bed. Keep returning her there explaining it's bedtime, she tells us to sit by her door which we do but she's out all the time checking. Sometimes for a drink but otherwise she has no explanation why she's out of bed

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 04/07/2020 13:43

OK, in that case tackling this at bedtime will ultimately help in the middle of the night too (and daytime naps).

She needs to be able to see you and you need to be able to see her. You say she gets out of bed to make sure you're there. So be in her direct eyeline so that she can see you from her bed, as she is lying down. It's fine is that means sitting/standing in her room or by the bed, don't feel you need to be out of her room - you dont.

For whatever reason, she's not feeling content and secure in her room when going to sleep and your presence is the security she needs. You need to go through a process of giving her the support she needs, then gradually weaning her off needing it so she can feel more secure on her own.

Not unusual for this type of night time insecurity to develop around this age, so it's nothing unusual or anything youve done. Just emotional development.

She's got to trust that you'll stay with her until she is asleep. If she thinks that you are going to sneak away as soon as she relaxes, she will force herself to stay awake specifically in order to make sure you stay (and keep her safe).

So always, always, ALWAYS, stay until she's fully asleep. Every night, every wake up, every time. And until she learns to trust that you'll do this, be where she can see you at just a glance as her head is on the pillow. Once she trusts you'll stay, she'll be less inclined to check and and you can then start the process of moving slightly further away each few days.

As for now, be where she can see you as she lies down. Then develop a mantra of expectations and a settling routine. I would suggest: "It's sleep time now, we lie down quietly to go to sleep. Nan night".

Because you're watching her, you can spot any movement before she gets close to getting up. So don't let her get up. Any sitting up - repeat mantra and have her lie back down. If she doesn't, repeat your settling routine. For example as she's sat in bed give a big cuddle, kiss, say mantra, reassure you will not leave and she can see you, say mantra, wait where she cam see you.

Once all this is established, it's a case of being a broken record about it. Keep her in bed, respond to her super quickly (including any night wake ups) and be persistant and patient.

Once she's settling more quickly with you in her eyeline, give it at least a week without changing anything to establish this (and remember to always stay until asleep). Then move a step away from her, but still in eyeline, or partial eyeline. Still stay until asleep. Give that 3-7 days and then move a bit further away. Give that a few days and move to doorway eyc. With each change, still be on her like a hawk if she goes for getting out of bed and always stay until asleep.

bez91 · 04/07/2020 21:03

@BabySleepTeacherUK thank you, sounds good. Will put this to the test for the night waking. I'm not sure it'll be effective in getting her to stay in bed until 6am when she wakes at 5am as that's always been a problem but we'll shall see - thanks again!

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 05/07/2020 09:22

not sure it'll be effective in getting her to stay in bed until 6am when she wakes at 5am

The idea is to help her feel content and happy to "doze" in bed. Currently as soon as she wakes, for whatever reason she's not feeling secure on her own so whinges and shouts for you - which then wakes her up mire fully.

If you can teach her to feel secure on her own in her room, then when she gets into that semi-awake-not-fully-awake phase, that she stays dozing and may more easily fall back to sleep properly.

It may then mean you need to switch around her routine once you've sorted sleep hygiene. But if she's sleeping more/better then you would need to jiggle routine anyway.

bez91 · 09/07/2020 02:07

@BabySleepTeacherUK since Sunday and implementing this it's been worse than ever. She's waking up around 4-5 times a night because we're not in the room with her, it's not sustainable us having so little sleep, especially when she changes every night who she needs take her back to bed (mummy/daddy) or she'll cry and tantrum . Any suggestions?

OP posts:
BabySleepTeacherUK · 09/07/2020 08:59

Establishing long term new sleep habits takes consistantly applied routines for around 3 weeks. If you aren't 100% consistent, it will take longer.

I know you're tired and have had enough. Your DD's poor sleep hygiene has been in place for a long time and it will take more than a week to change these.

Ensure she's napping during the day. Its especially important while having broken nights so she can catch up on sleep and not get over tired. I would suggest you also establish good sleep hygiene at daytime naps too - sleep in bed with the same rules and routines (instead of pushchair naps).

One last thing, I don't know how you would feel about it, but I'd suggest cot sides back on. I don't recommend moving to a bed until between 3rd and 4th birthday. Instead deal with cot-climbing as a behaviour issue (which is essentially the same issue you're dealing with now, only made mire difficult from a bed rather than a cot).

bez91 · 17/07/2020 05:44

The same routine has been applied for 2 weeks now, sitting in her eyeline and we've not been able to move any further away. Tried the suggested 3-7 days but done double that and only deterioration. Since posting waking has been worse than ever, always 3,4,5,6 times a night she'lll wake up and come into our room to drag us back into hers and tell us to sit down where we usually sit

If anyone else has any suggestions they would be welcome 🙏🏼

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 17/07/2020 10:18

What happens to get her to fall asleep now?

And what happens in all these wake ups to get her back to sleep?

bez91 · 17/07/2020 10:40

@FATEdestiny she will just lie down and settle herself to sleep as long as we're sat there. Sometimes it's requests for a drink or a hug or a kiss. Some times she'll mess about keep standing up in bed but will eventually settle. Same during the 4+ wake ups too.

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 17/07/2020 10:55

I would insist she is lying down 100% of the time she is in bed, not accepting any messing around. She has to know bedtime = lying down (only) and being silent. Don't accept her doing anything.

I don't think you'll sort this until she's done pushing boundaries and accept that when in bed she has to lie down and not make any sounds. You're aiming for - lie there quietly and get bored stiff (but don't say that to her!), there is literally nothing Mummy will allow you to do, even for 1 second, that isn't lying down and being silent. Boredom is your friend!

Harrysmummy246 · 17/07/2020 11:00

Don't think anyone else mentioned stopping screen time after dinner before bed.

FWIW, don't agree about cot vs bed. Now just 3yo has been in a bed since about 18 mo (and yes I was cosleeping). It just doesn't occur to him to get out mostly

He plays up more if he can see me and I tell him to stop doing x, y, z

We just have to ignore him (generally easier for DH than me)

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