Drowsy but awake....tips

[CharlotteLiza]

So my little girl is 15 weeks old, and so far she’s pretty much been falling asleep feeding and then I’ll put her in bed asleep, and then she wakes once maybe twice throughout the night to feed. But the last week, she’s starting to wake up a lot more, I don’t know if it’s sleep regression or her habits have changed.
But I hear so much about putting babies down drowsy but awake and it’s better for them in the long run but we have never mastered this, she cries a lot every time I do this, and i try all the shushing and patting and cuddles and it doesn’t help, so I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to start this process.....also my heart can’t take cry it out methods.
Also when she naps, it’s either the pram/car seat/or me who cuddle/rock her to sleep.
Thanks so much!!

Hi @CharlotteLiza, we realise this thread is a few days old by now but we're just going to move it over to our Sleeping topic in case anyone's around to offer some advice and support.

I heard so much about 'drowsy but awake' and this made me put pressure on myself but honestly as soon as I gave up trying, things improved instantly. I'm really sorry if you don't find this helpful, just thought I'd offer a different perspective. When my son was little I really wish someone had simply told me that it's perfectly ok and valid to not do it but no-one ever told me so it took me a while to figure out for myself. If you still want to persevere with it then that's ok too, good luck.

A dummy is a really great way to replace feeding to sleep to independent sleep, without any crying at all.

Have you introduced a dummy yet?

For my kids the drowsy but awake stage took time to ‘sense’. Kind of when their breathing starts to sound like sleep breathing but they aren’t yet dead asleep and when you move they don’t resist and don’t startle. You might have to keep a hand on them or shhh when you’ve made the transfer. Also important to do that later on when they wake later in the night but don’t need milk - or at least get to get them back to sleep without milk/dummy if possible.

Sleep is largely trial and error-but mostly the kids genetics so don’t put pressure on yourself. Just go with what you have and shape slowly and consistently to what you’d like to happen.

And the sleep associations kick in around 4mo when they often realize they are awake and alone and don’t have a boob/bottle/cuddle to get back to sleep- so don’t get discouraged if the 4/5 mo sleep regression makes it feel like things are getting worse. Stay the course, even if that means some crying. They eventually get it.

@FATEdestiny do you own shares in a dummy company? I feel like i see you on every single thread recommending them! Plenty of babies don't like dummies.

@CharlotteLiza drowsy but awake is pretty much a myth for most babies, especially when they're that small. I worried a lot about feeding to sleep, rod for my own back etc, but DD gave it up by herself at 6m and goes down awake with about 10 minutes of grumbling now. Just do what makes your life easier for now, everything is a phase when they're tiny!

I just kept feeding dd to sleep until I stopped breastfeeding at 18 months. Then I cuddled her to sleep (or pushchair or car worked too). Now she's 3 years old, I read and often also put my arm around her to get her to sleep.

She barely slept at night between 4 and 16 months. I convinced myself that it gave me more opportunities for cuddles that I'd miss when she got older. I was very tired, I ate a lot of cake, I got a bit chubby but I survived. Now she sleeps, can play by herself a bit and I can sleep all night and generally look after myself better.

Dd only had a dummy in the car or on long days out, when my boob wasn't available basically. So many friends were either woken by their babies crying in the night because they'd fallen out of their mouths or struggling to get their children to give them up, that I saw them as causing more problems than they fix.

I've only heard about 'drowsy but awake' on here and wonder if it is some kind of myth. I used to feed mine until they dropped off to sleep and then put them in cot, carrycot or pram where they continued sleeping until their next feed.

Heehee - no. But in my day job I find myself almost constantly explaining to people why dummies are good things, not bad thing. Its got better over the last 5 years or so - we were at peak Middle-Class Dummy Snobbery about 4 ish years ago.

I've been bashing on about dummies as a no-cry sleep solution for the 6 or so years that I've been posting on the sleep board. Its nothing new from me!

(and I'll respectfully completely disagree that any baby actively dislikes a dummy. Some take a while to get used to it and need active perseverance. Others are left too late to introduce one (often due to the mothers unnecessary concerns) and so suck reflex is lessened)

Like would be very dull if we all agreed!

@FATEdestiny i suppose i just really hate the idea of sticking a piece of plastic in my baby's mouth to keep her quiet. If she's little enough to still need comfort, then I'd want that to come from a person, not a dummy. The idea of a little baby needing reassurance and love and instead being given an object rather than a cuddle just makes me feel so sad. Especially because as you said the best time to give a child a dummy is when they're absolutely tiny, surely that's when mummy should be their comfort, 4th trimester time?

I think that drowsy but awake is mainly bullshit; babies are different and yours is tiny to have a proper sleep routine.

… and there's the Middle Class Snobbiness.

The forth trimester time is exactly why dummies are needed. That early 14 weeks when baby needs to recreate womb-like conditions - Secure, enclosed feeling, swaying, comforted.

The attachment patenting movement will have you think that there is only one possible way to achieve these womb-like conditions. And that is in an attachment-parent kind of way that is dependant on the parents:

• Secure, enclosed feeling (holding to sleep, cosleeping)
• swaying (rocking in arms)
• comforted (feed to sleep for comfort).

That's one way to recreate the womb-type conditions of the Forth Trimester. There are many other ways to achieve the same contented baby outcome.

Another way to achieve womb-like conditions of the Forth Trimester are focused more on independent parenting, to help baby to learn to sleep without being dependant on a parent. Its not about not acknowledging the Forth Trimester. Its just a different way to achieve it.

Independent sleep habits to in the forth trimester would be:

• Secure, enclosed feeling (from a swaddle)
• swaying (from a moving sleep surface like a pram, bouncer or in the v early weeks swaying in a swaddle and putting down)
• comforted (sucking from a dummy, not feeding)

Just because your parenting style is based around attachment parenting, does not mean that attachment parenting is the right thing to do.

Judging other peoples parenting styles helps no one. Its not a game one parent needs to "win" by proving someone else's parenting style is "wrong". Just different - no right or wrong.

@FATEdestiny you said your day job involves a lot of explaining about dummies - are you by any chance a sleep training consultant or something of that ilk?

Yes, I teach healthy sleep habits for a living - I'm a (part time) sleep consultant (and part time SAHM of four)

@FATEdestiny- hope you don’t mind me jumping in here. Would you introduce a dummy as late as 6 months? My son has just turned 6months. He has some good nights (did an 8 hour stretch on Wednesday) but that was a one off! Every night is different but I do put him in his cot awake and stroke his head until he falls asleep xx

@FATEdestiny- just to add he’s EBF xx

Its late at 6 months Kate. I mean worth a try, but babies at the 5/6 month age tend to more play around with a dummy rather than actively suck it. All babies develop at different rates though, so it will do no harm to try.

My dd started having a dummy in the car at 7 weeks*, by 6 months she'd lost interest.

*8 hour drive to a wedding, and yes we stopped 50,000 times to get her out of the car seat!

This will sound a bit crazy but we used the Baby Whisperer book (it's probably out of fashion now!) and it says watch for the yawns, esp at nap time. Put them down after the second yawn - if you get to the third one they're over tired and won't go down.

I swear, this worked with DD though we must have looked funny doing it. Honestly, if she yawned for the third time we'd had it!

IHeartKingThistle I did the same but with cries/grumbles. Baby fed then on the floor playing and first grumble gets a pick up, sooth and back down for floor time. Then if there is a second cry that means naptime immediately. I think many parents cajole babies when grumbly for far too long.

My eldest is old enough to be around when Baby Whisperer was on television often. My sleep philosophy is largely inspired by her EASY routine.