15 month old sleep

[physicskate]

I'm assured by breastfeeding groups this is normal, but it's killing me...

She's always been a shit sleeper and napper. Naps have been amazing since we switched to one a day though, lasting 1-2 hours. But not in her cot. Never in her cot. I sit next to her in our bed. We stopped using the bouncer about 3 weeks ago?? She falls asleep with bouncing/ feeding etc...

Night sleep. Until 3 weeks ago, she would sleep in her cot from about 7pm- midnight, with maybe one feed in there. But then she would wake up and scream until we put her in the bouncer for the rest of the night. Feeding made no difference. Then wake up a couple more times, but be fed or rocked to sleep back in the bouncer. Which meant sleeping in her room for the rest of the night.

So that was a few weeks ago. To break this very frustrating bouncer habit, I started sleeping with her in our bed. And it seemed to work for the first week. She woke once maybe twice the whole night. Bliss.

So then I started sleeping in her room next to her cot on a mattress on the floor with the side of the cot down. So like so-sleeping. My plan was then to put the bars back and then start moving my mattress further from the cot.

After two nights of waking every 1-2 hours, went back into our bed.

So now I've created yet another rod for my own back.

She first started spending nights in her cot at 8 weeks and I stayed in her room until she was 6/7 months.

She's never accepted a bottle and I am SO ready to give up breastfeeding and have been getting really bad aversion once her night feed goes on for more than 15-20 mins. She's ok when I break her off mostly now. And now without the bouncer, husband can't really help as she just pushes him away and cries for me. So it's all on me. And it's too much for too long now...

So last night I persisted with her sometimes waking every 20 mins to come crawl on me until 530 when I kicked the husband out of bed so I can co-sleep with her.

She eats really well and doesn't breastfeed in the day, just at night. She feeds just before sleep but gets put down awake.

She's a bit behind with gross motor skills and doesn't follow instructions like come here, sit down, etc... i think she knows what no means, as I say it, she smiles cheekily and carries on doing whatever it was... she might not understand yet, or she's exceptionally cheeky, in which case I'm in trouble.

Help!!!!

Sorry for the mighty tome, just trying not to drip feed!!!

It's quite hard to understand your post but I think you need to set a clear plan and see it through.

If you want to keep co-sleeping and feeding in demand in the night then do that.

If you want her to sleep in her own bed and not feed her in the night then sleep train. At a year old she doesn't technically need food in the night (as long as she's a good weight etc). Put her down for the night and when she cries, essentially you can do anything but do not feed her. Some people will say shh and leave the room. I personally sat with mine holding her hand while she cried until she fell back asleep eventually so I knew she was cross and confused not scared. Offer water if you think she's thirsty (some people will say not to but I think it's ok if it helps you stick to no feeding). She will cry for a long time. Expect it to last over an hour and if it's less that's good. Don't give in as it will just mean she cries for longer next time. Do this for three nights then you'll be done.

She will benefit from a good nights sleep and so will you.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. (Un)fortunately, I don't have the constitution for cry it out.

Summary: always been a shit sleeper. Three weeks ago we changed the routine and things were better for like a week/ 10 days and now things are terrible again.

I know this sounds harsh but if you don't "have the constitution" to allow your child to cry for milk they don't need while you comfort them in another way (holding hands, stroking, gentle cooing)(cry it out is where you just shut them in a room and leave them) then you'd better buckle up for having the constitution for shit sleep for a good while. Which will make you a more shit parent in the day and disturbed sleep isn't great for them either.

Kids often get the hang of sleeping through after just one night. Your kid is waking out of habit not need and they need a helping hand to learn what to do instead.

Will you give in to other things they don't need if they cry? Chocolate etc? Just worth thinking about. You are the parent and can set boundaries and help them learn.

Good luck whatever you choose!

My kid was sleeping well for about a week. She even slept through for a whole night. That was a couple weeks ago. Now it's all gone to shit again...

Appreciate your judgement advice.

Teach me to ask the viper's best. Serves me right.

And comforting my child does not work. I've tried this before... for hours. To the point the neighbours come round to make sure there hasn't been a murder and/or she makes herself sick... but really it wouldn't have occurred to me to try all the obvious things in the past year or so!!

Thanks for the advice. (Un)fortunately, I don't have the constitution for cry it out.

The PP wasn't suggesting cry it out (that means leaving your baby to cry alone). The suggestion was don't feed, comfort baby in a different way. Baby will cry because you're not feeding, but you still comfort and console her.

How do you feel about doing that?

I'd be ok with it, but I've tried it before at various points. For hours. And hours. I think the longest we went once was 3 hours from 10pm-1am. As I said, the neighbours came round.

She's also been sick while doing this. I can't watch that again and again.

Because I gave in those times, I suspect it will be even longer screaming sessions.

The soothing I've tried, holding and rubbing back, gently stroking cheek while laying down, holding hand, she has white noise and a lullaby nightlight. We've tried singing. We have blackout blinds (since just before lockdown).

Crossed post...

I'm trying to understand so I can help you.

● You want to give up breastfeeding
● But you can't because breastfeeding is the only thing that stops baby crying at night

So... would it help you to be given coping mechanisms, rather than suggestions to solve the night wakes?

Realistic expectations help. Toddlers/ children usually need comfort to go to sleep until around about pre-school age (3-5 years old). Parents try lots of ways for their children to feel comforted without them- dummy, comforter, routine and repeatability helps too.

Your baby breastfeed for comfort. And that's OK.

Your baby will need that comfort for the next 2 years at least. Without an alternate option, you need to think of this as a marathon not a sprint.

How can you maximise your sleep while also accepting lots of breastfeed at night? I'd suggest the easiest option for both of you would be to buy a double bed for baby's room and cosleep. Think of it as long term.

@FATEdestiny - that is quite reasonable advice. I appreciate that.

I do miss spending any time with my husband, but you're right that I think it's more that my expectations need to change than anything else.

She also has a lovey (3. We rotate them to wash them. They're identical).

She was doing well with me retreating once she was asleep, but that was before the bouncer was banished as she was becoming more and more reliant on it. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving her alone to sleep in a non-cot... call me insane!

So a change in expectations. Good advice. Thanks.

Thank you @FATEdestiny - you're saying exactly what I'm saying!

The very first thing I said was
"If you want to keep co-sleeping and feeding in demand in the night then do that"

I do it! There's nothing wrong with it.

It's expectations - exactly.

I do it because I want to and I don't expect that while I am doing it my baby will magically start sleeping through. She won't. But I prefer the cosleeping at the moment even though she wakes. When I am ready for her to sleep through / stop breastfeeding I will have to comfort her in a way that isn't breastfeeding.

I think the advice ‘of you want to consleep then do it’ is obviously the best. But if you want to try to improve her sleep. If you can’t endure the crying, could your husband do it? Speak to the neighbours in advance and say ‘we’ll be trying this on this night, here are some earplugs and chocolates, I recommend white noise’ etc, and just try it for 3 nights? If it doesn’t work by 3 nights, it probably won’t I don’t think your child will remember the last time you did it and it didn’t work, it it was a while ago. It probably won’t amount to more overall crying than form her normal multiple wakes.

Sorry for typos and punctuation errors!

And I don’t mean cry it out! Stay and support style.

Is there a reason she prefers the bouncer? Have you ruled out things like reflux/food allergies etc? Could it be that she's uncomfortable lying flat and is waking often for comfort feeding?

My DS was a terrible sleeper and needed extensive rocking and bouncing to get him to sleep, waking every 1-2 hours. We did a version of stay and support that felt right for us all and it transformed his sleep overnight. It involved night weaning and just offering water and cuddles, although I still fed in the day.

I have a 15mo too, but am no sleep expert! My thoughts are:

• If co-sleeping works for now then great, you aren't tied to it forever. It won't be any harder to change later than now, and hopefully will be easier!
• If you are co-sleeping, can you make it safe to leave her e.g. bed guard, mattress on the floor, monitor. Being able to have more time to yourself is probably good for your wellbeing.
• If you want to make changes to sleep, decide what you can and can't deal with. At one point we tried night weaning DS. I found it worse than feeding him to sleep. If you are eventually going to bring her in bed with you/feed etc then you might as well just do it rather than having an hour of screaming first! (This is not meant as a criticism, we've been there!)
• Following on from the two points above - what would make a noticeable difference to you? Having time to yourself in an evening? Only allowing feeds for 15mins before handing over to your DH? Having the bed to yourself (and DD) so you have more space to co-sleep?
• Remember things change (for the better sometimes as well as the worst). Things that don't work at one point may work again.
• If you want to make changes e.g. working on settling in the cot, think about when is best e.g. at nap or bed time rather than in the middle of the night. Maybe reframe your thoughts on crying e.g. I am willing to comfort DD in many ways just not X. She is frustrated at me making a change but I'm doing it for all of us to get better sleep.

I don't know if any of this is helpful but good luck.

@BendingSpoons super helpful. I'm generally a 'path of least resistance' sort of person. I figure she's going to scream, and at 2am it's just easier to give in when I've already been awoken 2/3 times.

I think the thing bugging me most at the minute is a) sleeping in two hour chunks and b) not having an evening/ seeing my husband ever...

Will have to think about this. But I'm mostly too tired to do so!!!

You'd think I'd be used to unsettles sleep after so long, but that week or so if getting up once/twice a nap got a couple weeks back really killed me into a false sense of security.

It's silly, but stopping breastfeeding is both desirable and feels like a failure of sorts. Even though I'd never intended on feeding her this long!!!

I think the thing bugging me most at the minute is a) sleeping in two hour chunks and b) not having an evening/ seeing my husband ever.

So focus on this, not on getting her in a cot.

I'm mean, having her sleep independently (in a cot) is a great thing to focus on - but actually it will hinder the "path of least resistance" towards the two aims you set.

What you really need to do is think very carefully about exactly what your priorities are - what do you want to achieve first/most.

From your two aims, both are best achieved by making your bed co-sleeping friendly and feeding to sleep on your bed, not moving her. Then set your expectations - she won't sleep through but you can get her sleeping as easily/much as possible.

To solve: b) not having an evening/ seeing my husband

Feed to sleep on the bed at baby's bedtime. Take your phone with you and allow a good half hour to an hour chilling on your bed until she's fully and totally asleep. Then very slowly, very gently extract yourself. Do not move her!

To solve: a) sleeping in two hour chunks

Don't expect her to sleep through or night wean. Focus your attention on maximising your own sleep despite the night feeds.
• sleep with your top off. At this age baby should be able to self latch without you needing to do anything.
• make sure you have good sleep hygiene yourself - blackout blinds (plus blackout curtains, since blinds bleed light around the edge). White noise. Keep room cooler and not too hot. Turn your clock around so you can't see it. Consider using ear plug and/or eye mask to reduce stimulation

• aim to not open your eyes when baby wakes. Ensure she finds a nipple but keep your eyes closed.
• similarly, aim to not move, or move as little as possible when she feeds. The aim is so you go back to sleep as easily as possible
• make sure your room and bed is comfortable and comforting for you. If a floor bed isn't comfy for you, don't use it and use your bed instead.