Please somebody please help - breaking feed/sleep association

[KeyboardMash]

How? Just fucking how? There is nothing else I can do that doesn't result in screaming struggling howling hysterics. I can't leave her in that state, but I can't go on like this.

She's ten months. She USED to go to sleep with rocking - I worked so hard at that, but then she was poorly and there was a bout of teething and she went from waking twice a night to four/five/six times, and I reverted to the easiest, fastest thing. Now I can't get it back. At the moment she's waking every ninety minutes and I can't settle her without a feed. Her naps are shit too. She used to reliably do at least one hour and a half plus a shorter one, but that's rare now - she sleeps better on me but that isn't sustainable. In the cot it's almost always 30 shitty minutes.

I need her to stop waking up so much. I need her to nap properly. I need her to be able to fall asleep without a feed. She's a whirlwind baby and she can't stay still long enough for me to shush/pat/rock. Tonight she wouldn't even fucking feed - she just kept throwing herself around, yanking off. I put her in her cot and sat with her and she SCREAMED for 15 minutes till I tried feeding again. I was starting to get somewhere and in the past two months it's just turned into a fucking disaster. Please someone, I don't know what to do.

And please please don't suggest I just "go with it". I can't. DD1 isn't getting any of my time because I'm fucking exhausted and fucking chained to this baby who won't fall asleep without the boob and then has to be held if I want her to sleep longer than half an hour. It isn't fair. It needs to change

Leave her to cry in her cot (which is a safe space) for 3 minutes, go in, resettle in her cot (max 1 minute in the room, no picking her up, no feeding, no rocking), leave for another 3 minutes, repeat until she falls asleep. She will. Repeat whenever it happens through the night. She'll learn really quickly but you must be consistent. Even rocking is a sleep aid and it will become something else you hate having to do every time she wakes.

Does she has a lovey/blankie she cuddles? If not try to introduce that, even if she doesn't seem interested at first.

8-10 month sleep regression. Fucking awful, worse than four months because (for me, at least) at four months they're still crap sleepers so not much changes, but by 7 months we were getting solid 3-4 hour blocks (heaven!) and then it all went to shit.

DD just turned one and has improved all by herself, btw. At 11 months she just started doing longer blocks. Not every night but last night she only woke up twice, we've had a night of only one wake up, several nights with a 7-hour block. All fed back to sleep but more manageable and she only comes into our bed now on bad nights (teeth or fucked up nap days) or after 2am.

As to breaking feeding to sleep: we've only just managed this (with no crying) and she still on the odd night needs it. Try Kerry Secker's Care It Out Bedtime Boundary course: it's online, about £20? And works miracles. It's all a bit twee – lots of catchphrases like "night knitting" to "stitch sleep cycles" – but it got us from feeding to sleep to cuddling to sleep in about 3 nights, no crying. Then there are steps to settle in the cot, then to self settle. I like the cuddling, though...

It only worked for us though when there was no teething, and once we were out of regression and she was already doing longer stretches/better naps/being less of a dick.

I have a baby the same age as you and struggled with getting her to sleep for more than a few hours and also had a strong feed to sleep association. A few things that helped turn it around for us that might be worth trying if you haven’t already are:
-play white noise and make sure the room is pitch black

• aim for a 20 minute nap about 2 1/2 hrs after wake up and then another longer nap In the afternoon.

As for the feeding to sleep I would still feed her but then take her off slightly before she was ready and hold her for a while. She would protest every time but I didn’t give in and put her down in her cot. You might need to go in a few times and comfort them, if they’re really upset feed them again but don’t let them fall asleep. It could take a few weeks to see results but that’s what worked for us. Also doing the short nap on the go might help because they won’t be getting fed to sleep for that.

I second the advice of honfleuri. Controlled crying is what you have to do.
My baby was exact same at 10 months. Woke every 45 mins. Fed ALL night long.
I did controlled crying. Took 3 nights. He's slept great ever since.
Applied the same technique to naps and they are great now too.
The KEY is you have to be 100% consistent. Commit to no picking up. Don't give in or you will just reinforce that crying means you get picked up/fed. You have to give a clear message that baby sleeps in cot.
It's awful, but relatively quick. You can do it.
Get the timer ready on your phone to time the minutes you are out the room and when you go back in don't stay longer than 1 minute each time. Good luck.

No advice but my 5 month old is the same - I could have written your post. She loses it as soon as I put her in her sleeping bag, and screams immediately if I put her in her cot even slightly awake. She wakes every 1-2 hours at night and has to be fed back to sleep every time, if my partner tries to cuddle her she screams and arches her back to push away from him. Naps for 30 minutes three times a day, that's it. One of those I do in the pram just to avoid the battle of the cot.

No advice, just solidarity. It's hard and relentless, and I'm so fucking tired I can barely string a sentence together. When I hear of people patting/shushing their babies to sleep I want to rip them to shreds, I'm so envious. As for babies who self settle, I can't even fathom that, it seems totally impossible right now.

I'm in awe of the fact you have another child to deal with too though.

To add OP if you have a partner get them involved. My partner did all the night wakings when we did the controlled crying with our 10mo and I wore earplugs and was (mostly) blissfully unaware. My partner couldn't feed him as no boobs, that helped tons. Like gem it was 3 nights for us. Now goes down awake and settles to sleep alone, no crying. Still a very happy, well-attached little person.

No idea if it's just coincidence or not but feeding more carbs at dinner = more solid nighttime sleep.

@KeyboardMash I forgot to say, I'm using the Little Ones program at the moment, I'm not convinced by it if I'm honest (bought in the middle of the night in desperation) but they do have detailed guides on how to break the feed to sleep association and it does seem to work for some people. You basically use touch to try and get them to sleep, and use feeding to soothe them when they get really upset (but avoid feeding them to sleep). There's seems to be an element of controlled crying to it but you do go to them if they get genuinely upset. You keep feeding them to sleep overnight until you've cracked getting them to sleep at bedtime without feeding.

I haven't properly tried it yet because frankly I'm too knackered to attempt it (and my baby is only 5 months so I'm reluctant at this stage) but it seems logically that it would work - not that logic comes into baby sleep! Good luck.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions! It's always a help to know other people are wrestling with it to.

The people recommending controlled crying - does your baby actually get "resettled" by you walking back into the room for one minute but not picking them up?! Because mine won't. That would just be continuous escalating screaming with me walking in and out at intervals to absolutely no effect.

White noise we're already using. It means she isn't disturbed when DH thunders elephantously down the landing, but I'm not sure it's doing anything for her sleep! I will try switching the naps around. The morning one is usually more successful, do that's more often the longer one, but perhaps short morning then longer afternoon one (but earlier) would work better.

I'm dubious about how cuddling on cot could ever work for her. You put her in and she's immediately on her feet, rampaging about. She doesn't seem to get any comfort from me trying to pat/stroke/cuddle her that way, and she won't lie down without considerable force! With DD1 I did a sort of soft version of cry it out - I basically just sat with her, shushing occasionally. But she only cried for five minutes, then burbled to herself a while, then five minutes whinging then sleep. DD2 has the whole house awake and is almost making herself sick after ten minutes, even if I'm half in the cot with her in an attempt to "settle" her.

Really appreciate everyone's suggestions! I think I'm going to start with trying to shift the naps - and maybe a more persistent go at unlatching before fully asleep. It worked for us before, but since I let it slide it's like she got wise to what I'm trying to do!

You're not really resettling them when you go in briefly, it's more to reassure them that you are still there, they are safe and you still want them to go to bed. At the start my DS would just scream when he realised I wouldn't pick them up, and now lies down the moment DH or I open the door to go in. You don't have to lie them down - in fact it's better if you don't so they can learn how to get from standing to lying on their own.

Have you tried controlled crying before? I truly believed it wouldn't work, and was stunned that it did.

Was there update on how you managed? Going through the same. Will only sleep with boob in mouth. Soothing makes him even angrier. Partner makes him angry. Not doing controlled crying.

Sh started eating better, we quit breastfeeding at around one year and it just sort of...got better. She's still a drama queen at bedtime but after a half hour of pratting about she just - goes to sleep. Alone. I did do a sort of messy and unsystematic gradual retreat - put her on cot and stay with her but with minimal interaction apart from patting. From there, I moved to a chair in her room, and then to the doorway. It was several months before I was successfully out the door, but I found this easier than the crying methods - although there was some protest, but I found it bearable!

Good luck. It's a rough ride, but it seems they do all get there eventually!

@Kat2017 you might be better starting your own thread as this baby will be about 2 now.

Have you tried putting them in their own room though? I found the nights got easier when they were no longer nearby.

The No Cry Sleep Solution has some good tips too.

31 ways to get your baby to sleep might help as well

Thanks for updating!! Good to hear they will eventually start sleeping 🤦🤣 I'll try and enjoy the ride for now

I'll try and enjoy the ride for now
I'll be honest, she did nearly break me for a few months there! It's worth reading about methods other people have used, but I've only ever used those as a guideline. Your own "red lines" plus how your child responds will dictate what works for you both. I've never had brutal sleep training in me - although obviously the short sharp shock works for some people. I was happy to quit breastfeeding at around a year, which made a massive difference. I don't know what you try if you want to keep that going longer!