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Sleep

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Original poster

3 year old still doesnt sleep thru the night

37 replies

shatteredmumsrus · 30/08/2007 16:38

I was on mumsnet 2 years ago with the same problem. He doesnt go to sleep til9 the same time as his 7yo brother. He still has a sleep in the day for an hour. I have tried ditching that but it makes no difference. he sleeps in a bed in the same room as his 7yo brother, who sleeps like a log!!! He wakes up a couple of times each night. Last night it was 12,3 and 6 then up at 7.He moans and cries and i try and calm him down and settle him but most nights he will only settle after milk.I know this is not good but i have stayed up for hours saying no for a couple of weeks and it was hell! He has been referred to a sleep therapist who came to the conclusion that hedoesnt need alot of sleep,ah what a help. So he has an average of 8/9 hours broken sleep a night and an hour sometimes in the day. PLease help me!!!

OP posts:

frazzledbutcalm · 31/08/2007 15:27

I would stop sleep through the day. Because he settles after milk I guess he's waking out of habit. Give him weetabix or similar half hour before going to bed then you know he can't be hungry. I'd also put him to bed earlier than his brother, he could actually be over tired. My 2 and 4 year olds sleep much worse after going to bed late.

NannyL · 31/08/2007 19:38

personally i would NOT be giving a 3 year old milk in the night

they DONT need it. (i wouldnt even give a 1 year odl milk at night)

if you stop giving milk in the night he will probably stop waking for milk

pinkteddy · 31/08/2007 19:42

I agree with the others, drop the daytime sleep and the milk. He could well be overtired at bedtime which may be why he doesn't sleep well. It may be painful for a week or so but there will be long term gain!! What about sticker chart - for sleeping through?

CarGirl · 31/08/2007 19:46

I took one of my to the craniel osteopath when she was nearly 4, she would take ages to get to sleep, she was never drowsy and would go through regular spates of waking 2 or 3 times a night most nights, then it would improve and then start up again. She would either be not with it or wide awake.

The cranial osteopath has revolutionised our life she now sleeps through 98% of the time and generally sleeps a bit longer too. Worth every penny.

notsogummyanymore · 31/08/2007 19:48

what did they do exactly?

JoanCrawford · 31/08/2007 19:51

Is he very active during the day?

I would look at upping what he does during the day. More walks, a game of football in the early evening, weekly swim session. Combine that with stopping his midday nap and see if that helps. Imo, 9pm is too late for his bed time. Try bringing it forward half and hour gradually, until he's going off at 7.30-8.00pm.

The fact that he's falling asleep during the day means he is getting tired, not enough sleep at night. I think they can get into a cycle of not sleeping and eventually not needing asmuch sleep (experienced this with dd2).

And ime, it is so so important to have a rigid routine. I know it's been done to death but I believe it to be vital. Bath, story, bed.

All the best.

CarGirl · 31/08/2007 19:51

took down history fiddled with her head and her tummy, I guess they release tightness across the skull and wherever else it is (in dd case her tummy). I think the tightness was stimulating her wakefulness and stopping her relaxedness.

He also told me that her morro reflex hadn't completely gone so we're now seeing a developmental therapist but he is right they do all these reflex tests and she reacts like a newborn would rather than a 4 year old........

notsogummyanymore · 31/08/2007 19:53

that's really interesting.Sorry not much help from me shattered. Good luck though.

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 01/09/2007 08:01

Thanks so much for all the advice. the problem I have is that he sleeps in the same room as 7yo brother and he wakes him up when he is screaming out for milk. Its a vicious circle. I have tried a sticker chart and it worked for 2 nights then no change and back to same old routine.I have tried stopping sleep in the day and he does go to bed earlier but he is evil from 4 onwards and wont eat tea cause he is too tired and he still wakes up the same in the night.He knows exactle what he is doing........

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cba · 01/09/2007 08:05

I have had something simiilar with my two year old, milk in the night all the time. I bit the bullet and said no milk, she went hysterical, i sat with her but held my ground. Once she was calm I then said night was for sleep and not for milk.

She soon go the message but went hysterical when I left the room and was shouting all sorts from wanting milk to needing medicine.

I kept going in at first to soothe her but this made her worse. In the end I went in once told her it was night time and everyone was sleeping. I think I had four nights of hell but now sleeps through.

If she does wake now I say to her one cuddle and back to bed, sometimes she might shout when I leave the room but it is no more than five minutes.

It is hard work but so worth it in the long run.

Good luck

cba · 01/09/2007 08:06

could you put your seven year old in your room for a few nights to crack the problem.

littlerach · 01/09/2007 08:08

Mmm, I have a similar dd2, who is just 3.
She has never really slept through consistently, though we haver ha dthe oodd days or so.

However, she doesn't have any milk if she wakes up, hasn't since she was 1.
She doesn't have a dummy.
She doesn't sleep through the day.

When she wakes up she'll go straight back to sleep. Often she just shouts out "mummmmeeeee" or "Daaaaaaaaad" and if we ignore her she goes back to sleep. Sometimes he'll be crying, so I go in and tell her to "Ssshhhh" and htis works.

She goes to bed at 7pm and gets up at 6.30am which is okay.

I ma hoping that as she starts pre school this week, that'll knock her ut a bit!!

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 01/09/2007 17:58

Ah thankyou everyone. I am not alone then. No chance of putting 7yo in my room as it is so small. Unless partner will sleep downstairs and I doubt that.Perseverance is the key but I am soooo dreading it. Partner will moan at the noise and ill be knackered but hey ho. Never know what to do for the best!

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frazzledbutcalm · 01/09/2007 21:07

I would make dp sleep downstairs, it will only be for 3-4 nights. he needs to share the responsibility too. If you see to ds through the night then the least he can do is do his part and sleep, right through the night, downstairs!!

FrayedKnot · 01/09/2007 21:32

He's 3. Can't he have a drink of milk (if you like), or water, by the bed, and help himself?

he doesn;t need you to get him a drink. Perhaps that could be a bargaining tool?

I agree, if he sleeps during the day or if he doesn;t he's hell after 4, means he desperately needs more sleep at night.

He has got used to you going in - could this be for reassurance, comfort more than anything?

Does he take things to bed with him? favourite toys, comfort blanket, etc? I think you have to accept that he probably is going to wake at night but how can you handle it so he doesn;t wake you up as well!

Do they have a nightlight in the room? If you older DS sleeps well perhaps you could consider it? Perhaps he doesn;t like the dark.

I once went into DS at 2am when I'd been out late, and he was wide awake and shining his torch under the covers...

I don;t mind as long as he's not waking me up. I think this is rare but as I'm usually fast asleep at 2am, perhaps he often wakes up at that time!!

moljam · 01/09/2007 21:41

cargirl how much did the craniel osteopathy cost(if you dont mind me asking?)?
we have similar here but my ds is 21 months.he settles with milk but up 6 times average

FunkyGlassSlipper · 01/09/2007 21:46

Definitely take the 7 year old out of the room for at least a week while you try and tackle this. Tell him he can have water at night and leave a non-spill cup by his bed (then he can help himself without waking you). If he doesnt have a comfort teddy then try and introduce one..

You make need to go cold turkey and your DP will have to help.

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 02/09/2007 13:08

Frayedknot - I do leave a beaker of milk next to his bed but he wont get him himself. He lies there moaning for ages and i have to go and give it to him. The trouble is he wakes up more than once. How many beakers do I leave? SOooooooooooooooooooooo tired today feel like I havent been to bed at all!

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frazzledbutcalm · 02/09/2007 15:43

I wouldn't leave any drink, kids then start to wake up solely for a drink out of habit. If you must leave drink then let him just moan forever until he gets it himself. He just needs to learn that no matter how much he moans, youre not going to get up. After a few times of getting it himself he will probably not even bother waking up for it!

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 02/09/2007 20:36

Thats it the 7yo is in our bed and I am sleeping in with the devil sleeper! I am not looking forward to this at all.I just know that he is going to scream and scream!and I am gonna be evil to them tomorrow.Help, quick. What do I do? Do i just lye in the single bed in the same room as him saying go to sleep its bedtime????

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frazzledbutcalm · 02/09/2007 20:49

I wouldnt sleep in same room. Let him cry 1 min, go in stroke forehead to soothe then go back out. Leave little longer each time before going in to soothe. It will be HELL but it will be worth it in few days when he's sleeping right through!

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 03/09/2007 07:43

Morning, I didnt read the message before i went to bed last night.I had nowhere else to sleep. Partner and other son were in my bed, though partner did end up on lounge floor due to 7yo excessive snoring!I didnt give him a sleep yesterday which was hard going but he went to bed at 7.20 and didnt wake til 3.30 and said mummy, mummy i want my cover on etc but he didnt mention milk at all which he usually does, how weird. Is it me he wants and not the milk i wonder??? He whinged for about 45minutes and i just kept saying go to sleep, its nighttime.He woke up at 6.40.wow!!!He usually wakes up at least twice so that was better anyway.Back to school tomorrow so not sure where to sleep everyone.

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frazzledbutcalm · 03/09/2007 09:30

It worked last night so i'd just do the same tonight. Well done!!

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 03/09/2007 12:43

Thanks frazzled (wink)

OP posts:

Original poster

shatteredmumsrus · 03/09/2007 12:44

Thats
If this wink doesnt work you know what I mean!

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