4 month old sleep 'routine'

[BeyonceKnows]

My 4 month old is a (in my opinion) really good sleeper (mostly, obviously there are blips and rough patches but on the whole, pretty good) but she generally sleeps 11pm - 8am. But she will not go to sleep for the night until 11pm.

Our routine is:
6pm bath,
6.30pm bf, book.
7pm bed.

At 7pm she will usually sleep but only for an hour, she then wakes up WIDE AWAKE and will babble, coo, giggle (interspersed with some grizzliness but on the whole, happy, alert, playful).

For the next 3/4 hours I stay upstairs with her with the lights low, trying to keep the environment calm.

She will not go back to sleep until 11pm.

Now... My husband thinks we should just accept that she isn't tired enough until 11pm and we may as well bring her downstairs and carry on our evening until we put her to bed again at 11.
My theory is that we have to keep her in the environment in which she should be sleeping so that she eventually recognises it's bed time. I guess mine is more of a sunken costs fallacy... We've done this routine since she was 8 weeks, if we stop now, it's been a waste. But actually, she doesn't seem to associate the bedtime routine with bed so am I just wasting my life sitting in a bedroom with a 4 month old who isn't tired?!

Any advice on either getting a baby to sleep before 11pm/reassurance as to whether this is normal?? Or advice to continue the 'routine' or take a break and revisit in a month or so....?

Sorry this is so long.

I can only speak from my own experience but if it were me I think I'd be inclined to agree with you and not your OH. However I also wouldn't be in the room with her unless she's upset. If she wakes up and is alert but calm (and assuming you have a baby monitor) would you feel comfortable just leaving her to her own devices?

Just to add, the reason I agree with you isn't because I think it's a sunken cost . More that if you take her downstairs and make it into proper 'awake time', then surely that'll make it much much less likely that she'll ever want to switch to an earlier bedtime? And also presumably she'll then just keep making up for the lack of night sleep elsewhere in naps?

To me it feels a bit like when people say they couldn't sleep, then you ask them what they did when they couldn't sleep and they say something like 'oh I got up and went to watch TV'... you're definitely not going to get to sleep while you aren't trying too. Obviously this is a simplistic view but it's just for illustration.

One thing I would potentially try though (especially if you're not happy just leaving her to her own devices) is moving her bedtime gradually. Perhaps try putting her down at 10.30pm for a week, then 10pm, then 9.30 etc (or whatever timing works for you) and see how she gets on.

I can kind of see it from both sides. I think if it's important for you to have her going to bed at 7pm eventually then she needs to associate the environment with sleep, but appreciate if 11pm is the earliest she will actually go to sleep is then it's a bit of a waste you siting in the room with her! I'd be tempted to move the bedtime routine to 10pm with her going to bed at 11pm as usual for a week or two to adjust create that association - as you say she won't even be associating the bed time routine with going to sleep for the night at the moment. Then gradually move the bathtime earlier in the hope she will start going to sleep earlier too! But also the important thing is what time she is waking up. My son goes to bed at 7, but wakes between 5:30-6am. If he woke at 8 then he wouldn't realistically be going to bed until gone 9pm. As you move her bedtime earlier you may need to wake her earlier as well to ensure she goes to bed at the right time that night!

Thank you, that's all really helpful.
Hodgepodge21 so you would potentially do bath, book/bf at 10pm rather than 6 in order to try to create the association? I think I'll try that.
And she does cry to come out of bed and then becomes happy so I dont feel I can just leave her (and shes impossible to sooth to sleep within her basket). I will admit though that I am guilty of just sitting her in front of me and chatting back to her because I love her babbling I'll stop that as I'm sure it isn't helping the situation (I do only do it once its clear she really wont go back to sleep).
Thank you both for your advice, I appreciate it.

I take mine to bed with me when I go, any time from 8-11pm. I’m not bothered about set routine yet, I think its too young to worry and we have all naps with us so wouldn’t leave her upstairs yet sleeping.
We also don’t bath daily as its so bad for their skin so don’t have that association. We are a very baby led house though, which I might regret further down the line but it feels right now .

WoW
Me and my wife would love to be in your position. Our 4 month old cannot sleep without being held.

Yeah I'd try moving your bedtime routine to 10pm, because she won't be associating it at 6pm with going to sleep at 11pm. That way she can continue going to sleep at the time she likes, you don't need to put her upstairs away from you (as she can just go to bed at the same time).Then as she gets a bit older you can work on moving it earlier so by the time she is 6 months you can feel comfortable leaving her upstairs at 7pm to fall asleep and have your evening downstairs!

Thank you! I'll definitely try that from now on. Will report back when she suddenly starts sleeping 7 - 7

Haha fingers crossed it will happen very soon for you!!

I could have written this exact post OP!
My baby is the same age and up until now has had a similar routine, bed around 11ish and awake around 7am but for the last couple of nights shr wont settle at all, she's in a light sleep at best awake every couple of hours 🤷‍♀️
Not sure if its coincidence but it happened the first night we tried putting her down earlier, and using a monitor. I'm at my wits end as I'm also unwell at the moment so struggling with all the changes, feel like I've lost my great baby 🤦‍♀️😂
Is this the dreaded sleep regression that I've heard about?
We did revert to later bedtime again last night incase the change of routine was the problem but she was still the same, awake on and off most of the night!

LittleLadysMama oh maybe it is the sleep regression for you... I've been absolutely dreading it (doesn't seem to have hit us yet). Hopefully it wont last long and you'll soon be back to 11-7.
I do appreciate 11-8 is great, but it would be nice to have the odd evening back.
She woke up at 4am the other day for a feed. I realised then just how lucky I am that she doesn't generally do that... I worry that the 4 month sleep regression will have her waking every 2 hours.
I will say though, I'm quite lazy when it comes to sleep and if we're really struggling, I just (safely) co-sleep. I know people have varying opinions on co-sleeping but it might just get you through the regression? Good luck!!

Our baby was exactly this at four months!

We just let her decide when she was tired enough for bed, slowly over time it has gotten earlier and earlier and now at 6 months she’s sleeping 8-8 right through. I personally wouldn’t waste time trying to force a baby to sleep when you think they should, if she’s tired we put her to bed but bedtime is always naturally between 8-8.30.

From newborn, our dd would only go to proper sleep around 8.30-9pm. My husband insisted she should go to bed around 7pm so we tried it for about a year (4-16 months) - dd woke up at midnight and 4am. We then put her routine back to:

6pm dinner
7pm bath
8pm stories/cuddles/singing
9pm lights out

Now she is back to sleeping through (95% of the time!)

I'm with you @beyonceknows
I feel bad getting grumpy about her waking through the night when she has slept so well, for so long.
We just kept her downstairs with us until her final feed at 1130 tonight and she is asleep so far 🤞
Her new trick though is lifting her legs up and slamming them down on the mattress which wakes her, and us 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️