Are my kids the only under 3's that sleep after 11pm?!?

[TwoToo]

It's been going on since DS was born almost 3yrs ago. He's just started nursery, but I can't put him in for mornings because he's not even out of bed by the time they start, so I can only put him in for afternoons after 1pm. He comes back and I insist he naps, but this will obviously be well after 4pm. According to all the things I've read, naps shouldn't even be taken after 3pm! So, while DD and DS are just getting up from their naps, the neighbour's kids are getting ready for their big sleep. Once DS starts school full time, he'll need to go to sleep by 7 or 8pm! Anyone else in the same situation or similar? All suggestions welcome. I've read about the bring routine 15 minutes earlier each night, but that hasn't worked very well, as it usually goes to plot on weekends.

well be strong. stop the nap. then get a bedtime routine sorted earlier in the evening.

Two too, why do you insist DS has a nap after nursery? I'm guessing if nursery doesn't finish till 4pm, he's probably not waking up from the nap till after 5.30pm? I'm not surprised you can't get him to bed before 11pm!

My DS would often go to sleep if I went out in the car late afternoon, but if he did that then I couldn't get him to bed before 9pm. So I don't go out in the car late afternoon.

If your son is 3, he should pretty certainly be able to get through from the time you pick him up from nursery to bedtime. If he's really tired, bring bedtime forward to 6.30pm. Teatime and bathtime will takr up a good hour or more, then you can bribe him with a favourite video, then put him to bed.

He may wake after a couple of hours out of habit but a few nights of sleep "encouragement" should solve the problem. Or he might be so tired he just goes straight through.

The other girls are right. The obvious answer is cut out the nap. Why do you "insist" he takes a nap? If he's really tired after nursery, give him an early dinner and get him to bed early, like 6 or 6:30.

I would stop the napping, and implement a bedtime routine of dinner, bath, bedtime story etc - gradually moving his bedtime earlier and earlier.

and make sure he gets up at THE SAME TIME every morning - 8am to start moving back to 7-ish?

If I were you I would put him in for mornings - surely its not up to him when he gets up? If he is knackered for a few days then so be it. Then let him have no more than an hour nap after lunch, then up with lots of activities until bed at 8pm.

Just do it!

Thanks everyone for all that advice. I guess the answer to my question is YES and everyone else's kids and their dog go to sleep by 8pm!
If DS went to bed at 7pm, he'd never see his dad except on weekends. DH gets up at 9am and is home for 7pm! Bear in mind, if dd had same routine, she wouldn't get to see her favorite person in the whole wide world .

My ds was terrible at going to bed until he went to school TBH and now he's in bed asleep by 7.30. Try to knock the nap on the head though.

Re: insisting on nap
Because when he wakes in the morning (after max 10 hrs), he really isn't wide eyed and ready for the day's adventures. I'd like him to sleep longer (another hour at most), but he'll usually resist or get disturbed by DD who wants her morning milk. After nursery (and this is an entirely new thread to come) he's so knackered that he'll just about fall asleep by the time we reach our driveway. I've quit the driving around or parking up in a nice carpark while they benefit from a nice nap, because it just seemed so wrong that I couldn't put my feet up. After 2 years of it, and litres of petrol wasted, I had to just stop! Well, I lie, sometimes I'll do it for DD 'cuz she's still under 2 .

Twotoo, most families have the same problem of dads not seeing the kids in the evening -- I can't believe many employed men actually put their kids to bed on a regular basis.

The answer is not to keep the kids up later -- I know several people who've done this, and it really does end in tears, with big time sleep problems, and disasters with starting school. Instead of keeping the kids up in the evening, you need to make dh get up earlier, so you can have a lovely family breakfast before school/nursery/whatever. Children are much nicer to know in the mornings, anyway.

The other girls are right. You need to get rid of the nap, either cold turkey or cutting it back gradually over a week or so. After a couple of grumpy days, his naptime and nighttime sleep will merge into a total of 11-12 hours, and he'll be on a normal routine.

agree cant dad see them int he morning
IMe an over tired kid is no good. I woudl give him and hour d=from 1-2pm and hten wake him up

My dh never saw my kids in the evening on a week day. Only now with the older one (aged 7) does he sometimes see him. He ususally sees them in the morning but only to say goodbye to - they're just getting up as he leaves for work. Could your dh get up a bit earlier and have breakfast with them?

Twotoo

My DH leaves the house at 5am and gets home anytime between 6.30pm (very good day) and 9pm - and I know I'm not alone in the same situation!

DD2 goes to bed at 7pm - that means she sees very little of DH, if at all - DS1 goes at 7.30pm and DD1 goes at 8pm.

I just cannot keep them up later - they are all at school now anyway so them staying up late is not an option, but even before they were at school, they were always ready for their bed at a similar time - then DH and I would get some time on our own.

I think I'd go mad if my kids were up so late every night!

It's very nice for your dh to be able to sleep late till 9 every morning. [sarcastic emoticon]

I totally agree with the other posters, that he needs to get up earlier to spend time with the family. You can't expect your 2 year old to fit in with your husband's schedule - it needs to be the other way round.

Twotoo, you have to decide, are long lie-ins very important to you and your husband, or would you rather your children went to bed earlier. You cannot have both. For us, it's important that our son goes to bed at 8pm so we have an evening together, and he can get up at 7am and sleep between 1ish and 3ish. This routine will see him into nursery and, eventually, school. There is nothing morally wrong with children keeping late hours, but if it doesn't suit your family, then it will have to change. You say it 'goes to pot' at weekends, but that's not your children's fault. YOu presumably want to have your cake and eat it - ie lie ins and evenings by yourselves/whatever. I'd like that too, but it's not possible. Children can only sleep for a reasonable amount of time in a stretch. If your son is tired in the morning and tired in the afternoon then I think he may need a new routine. Sorry! And agree with everyone about your husband. If he got up at 7.30 (which isn't exactly the crack of dawn) he could see plenty of his children.

BTW when changing the routine you must IME start with the wakeup time, not the bedtime. There is no point putting your son to bed at say, 8 or 9pm if he didn't get up until 10 or 11am. You start by waking him up at - say - 8am - then start your new routine from there.

If your children went to bed earlier that would give your and your partner more time together in the evening - which would perhaps make it easier for you guys to go to bed a bit earlier and get up a bit earlier.
If you start implementing a routine don't lose faith when you have a very tired whingy son for a little while. It is a tough adjustment, but you will be thankful when he needs to go to school later. You are the one in charge, you can do it! Best of luck.

My ds was always late to bed - around 10pm and he was late dropping his daytime naps - around age 3.5. However he's started school this year and he's doing OK, could be doing with getting up a bit earlier but we always get to school on time. It is amazing how they change in a year or two so I'd not worry about school yet. You will notice a big change in his sleep patterns once he drops the daytime nap. If he is happy with afternoon nursery for the moment then just keep it that way... 11pm does sound awfully late though.... says me who has just got dd to bed because I allowed her to nap at 5pm this evening...

Looks like you've got some tough advice here - get kids to bed and they miss dh in evening, get dh up early so he spends time with kids. A lot on your plate!.
I used to enjoy smashing lie-ins with my ds1 until I went back to work and we all had to get up early - so loathe in a way to suggest you forego your lie-ins.
But seems that consensus is that you all need for kids to go to bed earlier and get up earlier. Once you have got that different routine in place, I suppose you might be able to try keeping kids up an hour or so later at weekends in the hope of an hour's lie-in - never worked for us but believe it works for some.
Good luck with whatever you decide - to be honest both decisions sound hard (staying as you are vs radical change). You know that MN will support you whatever.

My DS is nearly 2.5 and goes to bed usually at the same time we do - around 11pm. He has an afternoon nap. We love spending our evening with him, eating dinner, playing and talking. He spends a lot of time with his dad at this time which I think is of paramount importance.
I'm not worried about the adjustment to different hours - I'm sure that when he grows out of the nap he'll need to go to sleep earlier in the evening and we'll miss him!
Also those afternoon naps are a great opportunity to spend time with DP at weekends

Dear clairmagnolia...ALAS! a "refreshing" message. DS turned 3 the other day and I haven't done the radical change, he still has his afternoon nap (4:30-6 on nursery days! , and still loathes going to bed at night. DH loves spending time with them in the evenings and we have discussed waking up at 7am...conclusion: UNLIKELY to happen. Noone in this household likes mornings, especially the getting out of bed part. I've decided to just leave things as they are and DO MY VERY BEST not to stress over it, since ultimately, the routine is set by me and DH. Lately, I've found my own answer...ever go to the 24 hour TESCO / ASDA / Sainsbury's at 9pm??? We aren't the only couple strolling along with under 3's

Hi TwoToo,
I wouldn't worry too much... my dd, 3 in December, hardly ever goes to bed before 2100 as she likes snuggle time with dad! Fair enough we'd love some 'us' time but hey, she'll grow out of it and if she happens to fall asleep earlier due to total exhaustion, it's a special treat for hubby and me! Crack open that bottle of wine etc. DD sometimes falls asleep around 1800 and wakes up again after 1h. I can already hear a lot of people scream that this is a bad thing to do as she won't go to bed later. Wrong! Actually she sleeps better at night if she gets her nap no matter what time, and also it's not advisable to wake her up when she's asleep... she turns into a screaching banshee!
I'm a firm believer in 'every child is different and has different needs' despite all these books that tell you what your kid should and should not do.
I've got concrete proof of that. My 7 week old ds is completely different from my dd!
Chin up and carry on!

well, my ds is nearly 4 y old and most days has a nap in the afternoon. Times vary, duration varies from 1/2 hour to 3 hours.. Sometimes he skippes a few days but then he will crash out at 1pm. And yes he goes to bed late and hurra, at least dad can take over for a bit (sometimes at least). He starts school next year, we will see what happens. At the morning he just goes to playgroup n the morning.

o yes, I agree don't wake him up even if he sleeps late in the afternoon...

Thanks for the comforting comments. I hardly ever wake him from his nap/sleep, unless I REALLY have to...eg. catching a flight, important dinner, etc. I completely agree...both ds, and dd when you wake them when they aren't ready...don't appreciate it at all! I wouldn't want to be RUDELY awoken either...I don't think any MNer would. I've decided to just carry on until closer to next September when ds starts mornings at school.

If you're happy with the situation, then there's no problem.