Controlled crying help please

[KippaxMumof2]

In desperate need of advice please.
I coslept with my baby until 6 months but we had to stop as it really wasn't working. He wanted to breastfeed all night long to stay asleep. He would occasionally fall off the boob but would stir 20 minutes later and root around desperately to find it again to go back to sleep. Any attempt to withhold the boob and get him back to sleep by other methods would result in non stop screaming. So he was attached to me all night long and would often wake up and cry and cry because he was stuffed full of milk to the extent that he was vomiting but couldn't get back to sleep. And whenever he has a cold (which is ALL the time) he couldn't feed to sleep either.

So we have moved him to his cot and tried controlled crying. We had already tried shh pat technique and failed and didn't think pick up put down would work.

From the first night his night time sleep has been fantastic. He now only wakes when he is hungry and will feed and then go back to sleep in his cot. But he is still crying for up to 25 minutes in the evening going to sleep (with us going in repeatedly). It didn't feel right that he was still crying that much in the evening so tonight I tried staying with him. Singing to him in the cot, stroking hair, cuddling, laying hand on back etc...It all made him so much more irate and tonight he cried for over an hour and it has broken my heart.

I don't know what to do. I would happily feed him to sleep as I'm sure some people will suggest but it won't work. He wakes up when you take the boob away and will cry when going down in the cot.

For some reason he can go down in his cot awake after a feed in the middle of the night and go to sleep without crying but not in the evening.

My husband wants to keep going with controlled crying because he argues that it is getting slowly better. I hate listening to him cry but have no other ideas. What I tried made things 100 times worse.

I know some babies do unfortunately cry a bit every night before going to sleep as part of their 'unwinding' but I want to know if there is anything else I could possibly try because I hate this so much!

Acknowledging your post but I know nothing about how to manage controlled crying, sorry.

Just so you know, it is absolutely normal and right for a baby to want 24 hour access to the breast, and to suckle every 20 minutes or so. That's perfect. Well done, baby. Not sure about the vomiting. If you have a very fast flow, more than he can cope with, you can lie on your back and feed with him on top of you, slowing the flow. If he has unrestricted access to the breast though, supply will soon regulate.

Thanks for your advice but it wasn't fast flow. He just suckled so much because he was trying to get back to sleep that he would be completely full occasionally. Not all the time, but whenever he had disturbed sleep for some reason.

And I don't really think it is normal for a 6 month old should need to feed every 20 minutes all night long just to get to sleep? I have certainly never encountered anyone else like that. And it really wasn't working for us. We tried to replace it with a dummy but he refused.

Have you tried a dummy?

Yes, 7 different types. All rejected!

I agree with you OP that at 6 months it isn’t the best thing for you and baby to be feeding all night. He’s not a newborn and if he’s ending up vomiting clearly it’s not optimal for him and can’t be good for your sleep.

Singing to him in the cot, stroking hair, cuddling, laying hand on back etc...It all made him so much more irate and tonight he cried for over an hour and it has broken my heart.

DD was the same. She seemed to find my presence at bedtime agitating. We would do a bath-story-breastfeed routine and then I would stick her in her cot and say goodnight and leave her to it. She would grumble (not a distressed sound) for 5-10 minutes then drop off and look very relaxed once asleep and wake up happy.

My DS was / is like this. We Coslept till 7 months, then we moved house and decided to try him in his own room from day one. I feed him to sleep then out him down. It can take up to an hour: hell fall asleep but keep sucking and if I move him before he's ready hell wake up. Sometimes hell pop off himself, others I wait until the sucking slows then unlatch him. Then I put him down. After that he generally wakes up once more for a feed at midnight, then sleeps till morning.
The initial hour it takes is worth it for the rest of the evening to ourselves! Also it's nice quiet time for just us. Perhaps a similar method could work for you?

I’d imagine he’s overtired. That’s usually the culprit if he can self settle now. At 6 months they’re usually on 3 shorter naps or moving towards 2 longer ones

What’s your daytime routine like?

I personally think you’ve done the right thing. It is so much easier at this age than when they’re standing up. I don’t think getting no sleep is healthy or sustainable for you either.

Just so you know, it is absolutely normal and right for a baby to want 24 hour access to the breast, and to suckle every 20 minutes or so. That's perfect. Well done, baby.

Seriously?! And what about the mother who may, just may, not want a baby attached to her the entire night long for six months? Your post is patronising and nauseating in tone and I find it really difficult to imagine you genuinely thought for one minute it would be helpful to the OP.

OP it may be ‘normal’ biologically speaking but it’s not ‘usual’ as in most mums out there are not dealing with that for six months plus. You’re a hero to have coped this long and you are absolutely entitled to change things now. Well done you, I say

Rainycloudday - thank you. Feeling very emotional tonight so have just burst into tears when I read your message because I have been feeling so awful and it is nice to have some support. My husband now thinks I am nuts....

Missanony- I think you may be right. He normally has 3 daytime naps (All in pushchair outside as that is the only way I can get him to sleep) but today he only had 2 so was probably overtired at bedtime

OP try not to stress, now seems a pretty good time to try and get it sorted.

There isn't any one perfect solution to getting sleep sorted.

I seriously cannot imagine that anyone thinks that feeding every 20 minutes at this age is sensible. My mental health would have been in shreds if I had tried this.

In a few years time no one will be able to tell how all the various babies got to sleep.

I think 25 mins of crying to settle isn't too bad really, my dd needed some time on her own to grizzle. Going in and comforting her just seemed to prolong everything and wind her up even more!

What helped was a fairly strict bedtime routine and we had some baby Mozart music which is intended to help babies sleep and did seem to help!

Bloody ridiculous advice from PlasticPatty.

OP I made my son's sleep the obsession of my life. He was horrendous and I was exhausted and anxious. At 8 months we did gradual retreat and it worked brilliantly. At 13 months we went on holiday and it all went to shit. Nothing I could do soothed him. So I had to leave him to cry. For an hour. I felt so awful I cried at my boss the next day. I have no idea if it was coincidence or not but he is back to sleeping well.

My advice is to never set yourself rules, because you just dont know what will happen. Your baby WILL NOT remember this. Go easy on yourself xx

@PlasticPatty I disagree with you and dislike your tone. Feeding on and off all night means neither baby nor mother is resting properly, which is not good for them. Gently helping the baby form a different habit is beneficial for everyone.

What's not helpful is coming along with some 'our cave ancestors fed all night long on their bearskin rugs' bs.

OP you're doing nothing wrong. I'd recommend just finding a sleep training technique and sticking to it, for at least three days, more like a week.

Your baby has an idea of how he goes to sleep. You're changing it. He will learn and adjust so long as you're consistent.

I read something somewhere about sometimes babies crying at bedtime just to kind of release the tension/stress of the day. If he's sleeping well and is otherwise happy it might just be that this is how he soothes himself to sleep at this point. Not pleasant for you to listen to but he might not actually be distressed (and the fact he got more agitated with you around suggests that it might just be part of his 'going to sleep' process)

Also it might be biologically normal, but if I had spent six months with a baby hanging off my boob feeding every 20 mins overnight or needing to be on my boob 24 hours a day I'd have had a nervous breakdown quite a few months ago. Comments like this are what puts mothers-to-be off breastfeeding entirely. Who would want to do it after reading something like that?!

My ds is exactly the same in terms of disliking being soothed to sleep. Even as a tiny baby, patting, rocking, shushing, singing all just made him angry. So I've learned that if he's just grizzling or crying a little, to leave him. Hassling him will just make him start screaming. All babies are different, some are like this.

It makes sense really, I know if I was trying to get to sleep and finding it hard, someone patting me and saying "go to sleep" would be the last thing I'd want

Is he screaming or is it a /grizzly type of cry? If the former I would just stay in the room as a comfort figure. It’s really not good for babies to be left screaming for that long. If the latter I’d try longer.

If you've got to the point where he'll self settle and it's not a screamy or distressed cry i would stay consistent. You've done really well and have taught him a really important skill and it is SO much easier at this age than a few months down the line when they're standing up and trying to escape the cot!

Its maybe like a toddler being a bit whingy when they've been told its bedtime or his way of winding down.

I would look at nap times though as ideally you want him to fall asleep more quickly than 25 mins. I cant remember what they should be for his age but I remember adjusting nap times at various points improved bedtime. Maybe have a few days at home to concentrate on getting the right daytime sleep?

The controlled crying will eventually get better, but have you tried white noise? Just download a free app on a phone or tablet and leave it in the room or there are loads of white noise videos on YouTube that will play through the night. I'd try feed, put in cot with white noise on and leave - worth a try!

I agree with pp-25 mins of crying/grizzling for a good night sleep to me would be worth it and what you may find after a few good nights sleep is that significantly improves as the overtiredness subsides. Both my DD and me according to my mum went through a phase of crying when put to bed (5-10 mins)- she would get infinitely more upset if I tried to intervene and eventually I decided this was part of her wind down/processing. Me and DH used to call it her ‘debrief’. Eventually she stopped and went to bed without a peep.

I had my DD in hospital recently and she needed complete rest so they encouraged use of the dummy to help settle her. They used drops of a sweet sucrose and water mix to encourage her to suck on the dummy and she then got the hang of the dummy and now loves it. Could you try something similar? Since we've been home I've been putting her daily dose of vitamin D on her dummy before her morning nap and she sucks away happily and will drop off to sleep by herself (without being held or rocked to sleep)

With my toddler DS we did controlled crying. It was painful! But we persevered and it was worth it. I did what you are doing and found I aggravated him even more when I kept going in and out so I just left him after about a week and would sit outside his room (crying myself!) and eventually the crying spells got shorter and shorter. It wasn't easy!

I made sure his room was nice, warm and cosy. I have 4 nightlights dotted around his room and encouraged the use of 2 cuddly bunny toys. I'd tuck them under his arms going to sleep and he eventually got into the swing of it. Now he gets excited about seeing his bunny's and races up the stairs to bed. You could sleep with the cuddly toys for a few nights so as they have your scent on them. Or stick them down your bra (seriously!) to get some breast milk on them.
My SIL swears by the sleepy head pillow things for the cot. My niece slept much better when they started using one.

Thanks all. Some really helpful suggestions for us to try.