Feeding to sleep and sleeping through the night...

[OhHolyNightWaking]

Are the two generally mutually exclusive, in people's experience?

I know one mum who always BF to sleep and had a absolutely great sleeper, but that's the only anecdote I have heard along these lines. She also had another baby who was treated the same, but was an awful sleeper. So this would point towards it being baby dependent, rather than to do with the method. In that isolated example at least.

But people (aka "they") always say self settling is the key to longer sleeps and joined up sleep cycles, but is it?

I have had two crap sleepers - well one mediocre one and one abysmal one - and just musing about it all, whether it is really my fault, or could it just be shit luck (or a combination), while I cuddle the abysmal one and wonder if I will get any sleep tonight...

Nah, both mine fed/feed to sleep past the point where they stopped waking at night. We don't make our children faulty be feeding them, honest!

Ds1 did start sleeping through after I stopped feeding to sleep. I did a kind of (very) gradual retreat at around 13 months, and by 15 months he was going in his cot awake at 7pm, falling asleep, and staying asleep til 5am. I think learning to fall asleep helped him resettle in the night. (There was no crying involved)

DC1 was a horrendous sleeper. I night warned him (including stopping feeding to sleep) soon after he turned two, but it took the best part of six months before he started sleeping through. He was really resistant to getting to sleep any other way though - he’d nap in the sling in the daytime, but he was almost impossible to even slip off the nipple once he was asleep. I maybe didn’t throw everything at it sleep training wise, but I also think he fed to sleep and a lot in the night because he needed to more than some babies do. When I compare his whole temperament and his (strong!) feelings about breastfeeding to my subsequent child, I feel quite strongly that DC1 was always going to be fretful and restless and find the transition from awake to asleep quite hard going.

DC2 has had fits and starts of sleeping well. As a young (pre 4 months) baby she slept really well, even though I was doing all the same things I had done with DC1 (feeding to sleep, bedsharing, feeding on demand, carrying her around everywhere). She slept more calmly and could often be put down without waking - v unlike DC1. She could also just drift off to sleep in my arms at any random time or place if she needed a nap - no struggle to transition, she’d just nestle her head against my shoulder and close her eyes. She did that well past her first birthday.
She’s currently 19 months, hasn’t fed to sleep since 13/14 months, and is still a pretty crap sleeper, although somewhat better than DC1. She goes into her cot awake and settles to sleep no problem, but will wake anywhere between twice and ten times before morning. Some of those wakings she’ll feed, others not. She clearly has no issue joining sleep cycles, and wakes in the same conditions she fell asleep in - but she still tends to need my help getting back to sleep several times a night. I think it’s more pot luck than trainable, really.

I wonder about this, as I sit feeding my 10mo DD back to sleep. She’s slept through a few times, sometimes wakes just once and settles easily, and sometimes wakes a thousand times and won’t settle for anything. I can’t figure out any pattern, and she must be able to settle herself sometimes since she has slept through. Usually I get to the point where I’m exhausted, declare that I’m going to do some kind of sleep training, and then she has a great night and I decide everything is fine and we’ll just carry on as we are.

I thought that was my secret with ds.. until one night we hadn’t got him all suited n booted for bed at that particular feed, so I thought I’d be waiting till the next feed. Nope he passed out the minute we got him grobag’ed up. He’s slept through from 6weeks bar the odd blipped night with teeth/colds/into his own room.

Ds2 is due next year.. I’ll probably have to learn how to sleep upside down for the little bat

No two are the same apparently, but they’ll all eventually sleep through.. or get to a stage they’re self sufficient through the night. And I’ve only heard of one who got to the self sufficient near teen phase..

I have 4 DC and they were all sleeping through at weeks/few months old and I purposely didn't feed to sleep and did
Pick up put down so they were content to be awake in their cots but knew if they squawked I'd be there.

One of them had undiagnosed silent reflux which was hell so not all plain sailing... think she just passed out overnight for 7 hours as it was the only time she actually did sleep... 😳

I think it’s more pot luck than trainable, really.

I hope so. Clearly sleeping children aren't my lucky area. Perhaps I should buy a lottery ticket.

DD currently wakes hourly and I'm on my knees. DH wants to sleep train, which goes totally against my instincts, but on the other hand I don't know how much longer I can continue like this (she's 9 months and has been crap since she was born and getting worse!).

Oh it is bloody hard work. Sleep training doesn't have to be awful though, there are some very gentle ways (I don't do crying, I lie to avoid babies having to cry as much as possible!!) Which might be worth exploring.

Something really useful us to try and introduce an alternative form of comfort, which can be anything really, soft toy, blankie, dummy, music. I do believe that babies need some way to find comfort. Then if you remove one source (feeding to sleep) they have another to turn to.

Pick Up Put Down doesn't involve any crying if you do it properly. DH can help too wouldn't be just down to you to see it through.

Pick up put down involved a lot of crying when I tried it with son. The only way he wouldn't have cried would be if I hadn't put him down!

I do agree about alternative comfort. DS took a dummy (and later adopted a cuddly toy) which was a game changer. So far I haven't found anything that DD likes.

Both of mine were amazing sleepers as young babies. They would do 6/7 hour stints from a couple of weeks old. I could put them both down awake and walk away, and they'd go to sleep by themselves. DD even did this whilst DS was kicking off massively in the same room. With both, this lasted until about 7 months, when they could both pull themselves up to standing. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but they both decided they wanted to feed to sleep from then on, which led to many more night waking and total co-sleeping. DS fed to sleep until he was almost 2. He slept through a few times, but consistently from when I night weaned him down to only feed to sleep, not night waking. DD is 9 months and has just spent 55mins on the nipple. I expect she'll be awake within the next half an hour......gaah.

I fed to sleep and had a fairly good sleeper (feeds once or twice a night and dropped night feeds at 7 months) but then I started rocking to sleep and by 8 months had a very bad sleeper so for me feeding to sleep was fine but rocking was a mistake.

Anything is going to take perseverance! Yes may have to PUPD 150 times every time for the first 3 days but it will get better.

I did wonder this when mine were small, as I had three non-sleepers (all fed to sleep in one way or another, whether bf or ff). Ds2 had a dummy, which helped with the transition from boob to dummy to cot, but would then cry out in the night whenever he dropped it.
Looking back though, feeding to sleep and those evening cuddles? They’re actually some of my nicest memories.

Anything is going to take perseverance!

But you said it "doesn't involve any crying" which isn't my experience at all. Can you elaborate how you do it "without any crying", if you have a baby who cries as soon as placed into the cot? I'm genuinely interested, not being goady!

Looking back though, feeding to sleep and those evening cuddles? They’re actually some of my nicest memories.

I do think this! It's such a short phase and I do try and remind myself of that, when I am feeling like death warmed up!

😂

When they cry you pick them up each and every time as soon as they start, I was serious it may take 150 time before them not crying when you put them down. Also making sure they are properly calm before attempting to put them back down.

I started in the daytime when I had more will power and mentally set aside a couple of weeks to do this.

Does your DC already have a negative association with the cot because that could cause the crying as soon as they are in it.

It is tough but you either go with co sleeping and being disturbed hourly or decide on a way of tackling it - hard work initially but you both must be knackered.

My 9 week old doesn’t feed to sleep, he’s a great sleeper. His last feed is approx one hour before bed! He sleeps 11 hours with a one hour feed pretty much bang in the middle.