4 year old won't sleep by herself.

[dadof2princesses]

Hello

New member here, signed up because I really need some help before we start talking about therapists and such. We have two wonderful daughters, one is 2 the other is 4. Our 2 year old sleeps wonderfully, she goes to bed, falls asleep and stays asleep for hours only waking for a brief breastfeed and then back to sleep.

Our 4 year old on the other hand doesn't sleep. She would happily stay up until god knows when if we let her. Bed time is always a problem. I dare say we've tried it all. Spoken to other parents etc. The problem is she refuses to sleep in her room by herself. She will scream, shout, kick the doors and wake up her sister.

She has a routine, it goes like this

7:30pm, bath time
7:45-8pm, brush teeth and bedtime story
8pm - lights off, sleep time.

That's when the screaming starts. It's really loud horrible screaming, noooooooo don't want to sleep. I want to sleep with you daddy, i want to sleep with mummy, i want to go downstairs. Nothing we say or do will stop it. There are no electronic devices from 7:30, no TV, no phones/ipads. Only a bedtime story. If we put her in her room and close the door she will scream, get out of bed, open the door and come running into the bedroom with mum & dad and sleeping baby sister.

The only way she will sleep is if my wife or I sleep next to her, and if we do that she might also stay awake for hours, talking, kicking bed covers, stamping feet etc.

We've read books, trawled websites, asked other parents for advice and none of it is working. We are concerned that at 4 years old she really ought to be able to sleep by herself. But she will not. Leaving the door open and sitting just outside it results in her getting out of bed, you put her back to bed, she gets out again and starts screaming.

Has anyone else encountered this? What did you do to fix it ?

Thanks.

Can you get some audio books

Then listen together to 15 mins
Then nip for a cuppa - or toilet and say I’ll be back in a min

Lohengrin make each trip away longer so she slowly get used to the idea?

Hi GreenTulips, thank you very much for your reply.

Audio books sounds like a nice idea.

I have tried the nipping to the toilet for a while, but after just a few minutes she will be out of bed again. Even if I really do actually need the toilet, she will be getting out of bed and trying to get into the toilet as well.

We love her very much, and it's so hard hearing her scream and shout but also it wakes up her other sister. We tried letting her scream too but it just doesn't end.

She will notice if nobody is there for more than a minute or two and go exploring to find us. Today we had an hour of her screaming and screaming, shaking the upstairs baby gate to the point I thought it might actually come loose from the wall. I stood there on the stairs talking to her, calmly and softly trying to get her to go to bed, but she just wouldn't and we caved in and slept with her.

But audio books is a good suggestion, I'm going to try that tomorrow... thank you.

Can't you just let her sleep with you?

A few questions:
Is she tired enough from the day's activities?

Does the baby sleep in with you? So is she feeling left out?

My sister has been through a sleep clinic with her autistic son. Bedtime starts at 4/5pm with all the lights and TV being off / dimmed. Bath time is a couple of hours before bedtime as it is actually quite a stimulating activity. There are no toys at all in the bedroom. She uses a weighted blanket to provide the sensation of being held and she uses lavender oil on his pillows. It has changed her life!

Morgan12 yes we can. That's what happens every night. However, we want her to be able to sleep by herself. Most people we know their child aged 4 or more is able to sleep on their own. Heck i've even been scouring this forum and people are worried about 2 year olds not sleeping alone.

What concerns us is that if we don't get her sleeping on her own soon she may never do it.

JuneSpoon she should be, we take her out to a small playground that's literally at the end of our street. We have a trampoline in our garden which she'll happily bounce around on for hours and they both run around making happy screams chasing each other inside.

Baby sleeps with mummy usually (I often end up sleeping by myself in the spare bed) sometimes I sleep with my wife and the baby yes. You could be right in her feeling left out, but she's also fine if I sleep with her... just not fine on her own.

Maltay that's very interesting. I will try to learn about weighted blankets. Thanks.

Hi OP,
No advice just to let you know that we are going through the exact same thing. DD is 3years 8months and DS is 4 months old.
Like you We’ve tried everything and are now starting to wonder if there is something really wrong that needs therapy/ medical investigation.

Things that we’ve tried (but failed - you never know they might work for you)
Consistent routine, no screen time after 4pm, early bedtime, later bedtime, gro clock, night lights, reward charts, cry it out, gentle retreat....
the only thing that works is one of us on a camp bed in her room.

Often get told by people that she’ll grow out of it but not sure how we’ll survive until she does!

The worst thing is that she’s shattered in the day so we have a whingey grumpy kid during the day and then a screaming banshee at night.

Good luck and if you find the miracle cure be sure to let me know!!!

Pipanchew2 thanks, it helps to know we're not the only ones. You've probably heard it all the same as we have too and people say aah but you just need a routine... you have one, and it still doesn't work.

I'm sure we don't have any "medical" issue and I can't speak for you and yours but maybe you don't either. I think we just have very attached children.

Hope you find a solution too. Thanks.

Yes your probably right OP, I think the answer might be a clone. That way I can be asleep whilst the clone is sitting at the end of her bed for 10hours.

*you’re

I think the answer might be a clone

hah yeah or a mannequin dressed in mummy/daddy's clothes lol

I think she's feeling left out, in her mind why should she sleep by herself when everyone else sleeps together. I would put the two girls in the same room.

The problem with them all sleeping in the same bed is that they keep each other awake. The older one talks a lot before sleeping, and wrestles around in bed, throws covers on and off etc. But you could be on to something about being left out, even though I myself very often end up sleeping alone.

I'm going to go to bed now, as I'm exhausted, but I will check on this thread tomorrow so thank you very much everyone for the replies and if there are any more tomorrow I'll be back...

Goodnight.

DD is six, and really struggles to get to sleep on her own. We've decided that this isn't a battle we need to fight (though she is promised a new bed once she doesn't need one of us with her). I suspect she would be OK with a sibling, but she's an only child, so that's not an option. While getting her to sleep takes a while, it isn't stressful for any of us, and we've accepted that's how it is. I doubt it'll be the same by the time she's a teenager!

We used to have to sit with DD until she fell asleep. Until she was well over 3.5ish? Especially if we were away from our house.

Even now (she's 5 in December) every bedtime before we say Night and leave her room, she's asking us to stay but we say No (I usually have to come down and cook) and nearly every night she comes to the stairs and calls us for something.
We talk to her briefly and then send her back in, and say we'll come up and give her a kiss later on.

It's a difficult stage but it does stop.

What makes it easier, under what circumstances will she sleep quickly?
Can you just sit with her until she's asleep? No talking, no engagement, just being there?

Hi, my DS is the same he’s 3 years 4 months and I sleep on a camp bed every night, I think they are just attached my sons always struggled with separation anxiety and I just think it wont be forever. I just do whatever it takes for us all to get some sleep. It certainly won’t last forever (that’s what I tell myself anyway!)

My DD is almost 4. She hates going to sleep alone. We're trialling her and out 6m baby sharing a room. She has to do a week of well behaved bedtimes before we started putting baby in the room. When he stirs for night feeds I bring him back into our room.
Is there any way you could try something similar?

Just a thought you could try a book called “the rabbit who wants to fall asleep” it worked for a friend of mine. Read up on the book rather than me describing it can getting it wrong, there is a specific way to read it for it to work and you can get it on audio.

I dont see a problem here the routing seems good, bathtime could do with being a tad earlier, baths relax adults but excite children and make them hot. I dont see why the bedroom door has to be closed, and why a night light or light from the hall isn't available. If DD2 is asleep DD1 must not wake her, if DD1 & DD2 are awake, allow quiet talking, but not getting out of bed. DD1 is obviously too hot, consider a cooler bedroom with extra cover for DD2 only if required. September was overly warm, combine that with bath-time and the little mites are roasting, windows should be open with child-locks attached. Best wishes.