Going to stop bfing at night tonight

[Lovage]

Saw my GP today who reckons nightfeeding is probably affecting my (already dicey) fertility. I really want another baby, and soon, since I'm getting old and it took 5 years and infertility treatment to conceive DS. Also I'm knackered.

I've been trying to stop bfing in the night for months now. DS is now 1 and I'm really pretty confident that it's not hunger. It's that he wakes up, is unhappy because he's woken and bfing is the way he wants to go back to sleep (which I can quite see, from his point of view). We've been trying gradual withdrawal but most nights I do end up bfing him after DP has tried to soothe him for an hour or has got him back to sleep but then DS wakes up again 45 mins later etc. We're not prepared to leave him to cry on his own but are going to try DP holding and rocking him while he cries/flails around/screams etc. We have been doing this for months but this time I really am not going to end up bfing him.

Really not looking forward to this. And poor DP is going to have a really rough night and is knackered already from bad night last night. So we did the sensible thing and finished off a bottle of wine with dinner... Ah well, maybe I'll be in too much of a drunken stupor to hear DS cry. Fat chance.

Hope you all have better nights than us! (Secretly hoping that posting this will make him sleep through, which he has done about 6 times)

Alberta - it only works for us if DP goes in, not me. Not sure if that's because he's more patient than me, has stronger arms so can hold and rock DS for longer (mine are very feeble), or just because he doesn't smell of milk and DS doesn't associate him with bfing. If I go in and try rocking or patting/shhing DS just gets more and more wound up. Do you have anyone who could go in instead of you?

Claireybee - that sounds a bit encouraging, even if you didn't get much more sleep. Hope tonight continues the trend!

We had another good night last night! A single squeak at 3.30, then he woke at 5.15 but chuntered quite happily to himself til 6! DP went to him when he started crying then but I fed him after 5 mins cos it was so close to morning. So we're still getting less sleep in total cos we're starting each day so damn early, but DS is going much longer without feeding. Wish I'd tried this months ago! But actually I don't think it would have worked cos I don't think he was ready. And I don't think we were ready to cope with his crying until the fertility thing became an issue. You do what you can and no more!

5.50! Some single cries at 1 and 3 but nothing more. Fed him at 6.

Please, please, please can he carry on improving at this rate! We only need him to get to 6.30 cos that's when DP gets up 4 days a week anyway (although 7 or 7.30 would be even better cos then DP could have a lie-in on the other 3 days. But that's probably just being greedy!)

I'm still dreamfeeding him at 10.30 but think I will carry on doing this until the new pattern (pattern! We have a pattern of going through til at least 5! At least, I think 4 nights counts as a pattern) feels more firmly established.

I am actually bfing him more times in 24 hrs as he's constantly wanting to bf in the daytime - think I fed him about 7 times yesterday instead of old pattern of 5 times including the middle of the night one. Not sure whether that's because he's wanting to more because he's not at night or whether it's his teeth which are bothering him on and off. Or whether I'm being more responsive to his cues cos I feel a bit guilty about not feeding him at night. Actually I think he's also got clearer in his signals - he doesn't sign, although we've been signing to him since 4 months, but he whimpers and lifts up my top or shoves his hands down my cleavage! Pretty unmistakeable. But hopefully the increased feeding in the day is just a temporary thing and not feeding between 10.30 and 6 will be helping my fertility anyway (although we're far too tired to do anything in that line...)

How was your night Claireybee?

Excellent night thank you! bed at 7.30 where she was unsettled until i went to bed at 10 (not so that i had to go in to her, just very restless etc). woke at 11.30 but settled again after just some shushing and cheek stroking. some noises at some point in early hours but didnt develop into anything, then woke at 6.50!!! I am amazed!

Glad you had a good one too!

Like you said, they have to be ready-there is no way this would have worked a few months ago (even 3 weeks ago when we last tried it didnt).

I still didnt sleep too well, think my body clock is now tuned to having to wake in night but hopefully that will soon change!

Wow, that's fantastic! And nearly 12 hours without feeding, I'm dead impressed (nowhere near that yet here).

I'm still waking anyway too - for DS's murmers and also needing a pee (feeble post-baby bladdar). But I'm sure we'll acclimatise. NCSS has a whole section on when you can't sleep but your baby is.

TBH though i wouldn't see giving a dream feed as a problem-its only when it disturbs your sleep that it becomes one! If dd had ever taken a dream feed i'd have done it but when i tried it she was the more disturbed through the nihght so i soon gave up!

Yeah, dreamfeed isn't usually a problem. It makes me reluctant to have babysitters because he does sometimes wake up at 10 or so wanting it which means we never have time to go to the cinema! I'd like to get to dropping it so I would be free to go out for a long evening, but not a priority.

Lovage and claireybee, I'm glad you both had good nights last night. I was inspired from reading your posts and decided to try it myself, with just DH going in to DS to soothe him and cuddle him when he woke up, but unfortunately it didn't go so well for us. He first woke up at 10:00, and went right back to sleep when DH went in. But then he woke again at 11:00, and despite all DH's best efforts, he was still awake at 1:30, when I finally went in to feed him. He would settle fine initially with DH, but wake up again about 10 minutes later, and then just kept getting more and more awake, and there was no other way of getting him back to sleep without bf. I think we'll wait a while before trying again- it's also difficult because with DH working, if he doesn't get a good night's sleep he's exhausted the next day. Fingers crossed that tonight's a better night!

Sorry you didn't have such a good night. Maybe it's not the right time for you. Or maybe it would be worth trying for a bit but bfing after a certain period (an hour?) of him waking every 10 mins. We've been doing that sort of thing off and on for about 3 months and maybe that prepared DS for not feeding at all now. I'd never managed to not feed him until the night I started this thread. It is so frustrating when you've got them back to sleep and then they wake up 10 mins later, isn't it!

The other thing I wondered was whether it might work better if you did feed him when he woke at 10 / 11 ish since that's presumably a time you'd be awake anyway. Then it would be more 'middle of the night' by the time he woke again and that might help him to stay asleep - darker and his body clock telling him more clearly to stay asleep. Also that's picking your battles to maximise your own sleep.

But as you say, maybe it's not the right time yet. I do think you get a feeling for whether it is or not.

Thanks Lovage. I do waffle a bit between thinking that DS will give up the night feeds when he is ready, and that I should end them now. But I think I'll give him a bit longer, as I really don't like having him so unhappy in the night! Good luck again tonight, I hope it goes well.

6.20! Making noises about every 1/2 hour from 5.15, and also at 1, so no more uninterrupted sleep for us. But 6.20!

And then he was quite happy chuntering to himself in the cot til DP went in to get him at 6.45. And even then he wasn't desperate for a bf so DP gave him breakfast first leaving me to doze and I didn't bf him til 7.15!

I really think there's a pattern here. And since we're only aiming for 6.30, I think I could actually say that he slept through for the first time last night! And he's only 12 1/2 months (before he was born I imagined he'd be sleeping through by 4 months, so glad I didn't know then it would be like this...)

I'm a bit worried that this weekend will mess things up - DP is going away for a long w/e and DS and I are going to stay with my parents. This will be the first time DS has been apart from his Dad for more than about 12 hours so I'm worried he'll miss him. And he'll also be in a strange place (don't see that much of my parents). So fear this may mess up his sleep. but even if it does I'm reasonably confident we can get back to this once we're home again.

Wheeeee! Sending good sleeping vibes to everyone.

Well done Lovage! . Don't worry too much about going to your parents, I often find dd surprises me and sleeps better in a strange place! also I try to spend some time in the room with her during day so that she is used to it before going to bed, might be worth trying.
Alberta, I'm sorry it didn't go too well for you, I know how you feel cos we have attempted it so many times and it has never worked before. Even three weeks ago i cut down her milk by just 2oz and she was up an hour later and wouldnt settle until i gave her the rest. Like Lovage this was the first time i had managed to not feed her during night, just keep trying every now and then and you'll get a feel when it is the right time for your LO. It is tough in the meantime though isn't it.
We didn't have such a great night here. dd cried at 11.45 ish, then again at 1ish and then on and off until 4. I was able to settle her quite easily each time but she wouldn't stay settled. It seemed to be her teeth that were troubling her though so i eventually gave her some calpol (had been dreading attempting it cos she normally only takes it mixed with milk but she swallowed most of it so another achievement!)and then she settled much better and i didnt have to get up again until 830. Am feeling positive that i didnt need to give her milk, even though we didn't sleep too well.

Well done, both of you! Great that you didn't have to give her milk, clareybee, even if you didn't have the greatest sleep. We on the other hand had to do the reverse: I fed DS at 9:30 and 12:45 and he settled immediately after both so we all slept very well. He really only wants bf before sleeping now, so I only feed him before his nap in the morning and before bedtime, and then when he wants it in the night. I'm still hoping that it will be up to him when he stops feeding in the night, rather than me enforcing it.

Good luck again tonight!

How did everyone sleep over the weekend? Ours hasn't been great, dd has 2 new teeth coming through so keeps pooing in night, has a bit of a sore bum and teeth are obviously bothering her...but we are still managing not to give her milk and she doesn't seem to need it. Last night she woke briefly at around 9 but settled gain, woke around 3 but self settled, woke at 4, settled after a cuddle then was restless until around 5.30-she then went back to sleep until 8.45 so definitely not hungry! Can't wait until this teething business is over, but as she only has 3 at 15 months its going to be a while yet!

Yay! A good night! she woke three times but each time i just had to give her her dummy back and lie her down and she was asleep again before i even left room. Feel so much better today!

"How did everyone sleep over the w/e?"

Terrible! But I'm pretty sure that was being in a strange place and missing his Dad. I feel like I spent the whole damn 4 days bfing him. He wanted to feed for much longer than usual (20-30 mins instead of usual 5-10) and I couldn't get him to nap at all except with bfing and then he'd only sleep for 20 mins. And in the night he kept waking and I kept bfing him cos I was too knackered to do anything else. I have always admired single parents, but after this long w/e I really really admire single parents! And I wasn't really on my own - my own Dad was helping in the daytime.

Last night was first night at home but he was teething (6 at once!) and we had toddlers staying so I just fed him whenever he woke so as not to wake the other children. But that was only 1.30 and then he went through til. 6.15, so not as bad as the w/e.

Although it's been bad recently, I'm reasonably confident that we can get back to the improved pattern. Of course we're off on holiday this w/e so he'll be in another strange place, but at least he'll have both his parents and he'll have 2 weeks to get used to the new place (and then we'll disrupt him again by coming home!). Baby care would be so much easier if you didn't also have a life...

Hello, can I butt in here? Tomorrow night I am going to stop feeding my 10 month old daughter at night and I would love to be able to speak to some experts while I'm doing it.

I plan to feed her before bed as per usual, then feed her when I go to bed, then put earplugs in and sleep in the spare room leaving DP to deal with her.

We are confident that this isn't too cruel as she had a tummy bug a couple of weeks ago so she slept on DP all night for 3 nights and after that she slept ALL NIGHT (!!) for 4 nights on her own before reverting to her old ways.

The problem I have is that DP works away 3 nights a week and during those nights I tend to give in and feed her as I find it hard to sooth her back to sleep due to my pathetically weak arms but we have a full stretch of 5 nights that DP is at home so we are hoping this will do the trick.

Any advice would be most welcome, I have been following this thread with interest and am very nervous on embarking on this.

We've given up completely for the moment, and the nights have been going pretty well; DS will usually wake up around 10ish before I go to bed, and then around 3 or 4, and I'll feed him both times. Last night was mad though- he was up, ready to play, at 2:30, and would not go back to sleep until close to 5!!!! He is teething a lot just now, with 3 molars and 2 canines coming through, so maybe that was it.

Good luck on your holiday, Lovage!

Welcome Jorange, and good luck!
Alberta, I think you are right to take a break for a while, try again in a few weeks and your ds might be ready. ATM though, it doesn't seem as though your nights are too bad so hopefully it won't be too long before they get even better!
Lovage sorry u had a bad weekend but am sure ds will sleep better on holiday with both parents and a normalish routine. It's great that your dh is so supportive and plays enough of a role for ds to miss him, I'm afraid in our household childcare is left almost entirely to me and dd doesn't seem to miss dh at all when either he or we are away . That said she is always very excited to see him, and they do have a lovely bond and do spend some quality playtime together-it's just the work part that is left to me

Hi Jorange. Are you me? Only 2 months ago? (My LO is 12 m now). And my DP isn't away regularly, thankfully. But I too have weak arms (in fact I think we may have commented on this on a previous thread). In fact, when I'm feeling militant I'd even go so far as to say I have a disability - it started with RSI but is now apparently a neurological thing where my brain has learned that doing anything major with my arms makes them ache, even though it shouldn't really. Anyway, that's by the by, just wanted to say that I really sympathise about ending up bfing because you just can't hold/rock your child for any real length of time. THank heaven for child-bearing hips for daytime use, I say. But that's no help for getting babes back to sleep.

It only took one night of DS crying in DP's arms on and off for 1 1/2 hours for him to start sleeping through. Since then he's been gradually waking later of his own accord starting from about 5am. I just fed him whenever he woke. Last night it was 6.30 which was all we were aiming for. So hopefully 5 nights will be enough for you.

Claireybee - that sounds very hard to have to do all the 'work' bits of childrearing! Hope you get plenty of the fun as well. I think my DP is unusually involved - he's gone part-time at work to look after him, and had 6 weeks off when DS was first born, which really helped him get the confidence to look after him. In fact for the first 2 weeks of DS's life I was so exhausted and traumatised by the birth and the difficulties of getting bfing going that I did nothing but bf DS - DP did all the nappy changing, bathing, dressing, gettting to nap, endless soothing and rocking and carrying in sling. So although that was a horrible period, it did mean we never had that 'mum is the expert on baby' thing. I had to learn from him how to change a nappy!

Thanks for the kind comments, I am getting nervous about tonight, I know I wont sleep through it all. DD has hardly eaten any breakfast or lunch today so DP is dreading that she will be hungry all night.

I'm just thankful that DP can take care of soothing her to sleep, like you Lovage my DP took a full role (except for feeding) for his four weeks of paternity leave because I had a C-section. As a result he is confident in dealing with most aspects of her care. claireybee, sorry you have to so it by yourself, I am not sure I could be so strong.

Good luck for tonight! Hope her appetite has picked up as the day has gone on and she wont be starving tonight.
I think the fact that it is all down to me is partly why i have gone the gentle route with stopping night feeds, i wouldn't be strong enough to do cc or to have tried to stop the feed before i was sure she was ready!

Hi, how was everyone's night? I had a good sleep last night for once.

I woke DD and fed her at 10.30, but she wasn't that interested which I thought might be a good sign. I went to bed in the spare room with earplugs in and slept until 6.

DP on the other hand got woken up at 1am. DD kept going to sleep in his arms but screaming when put back in the cot. After 3 hours DP brought his duvet in her room and slept with her on the floor until 7.

I was expecting a starving baby when I went in, but no, a 5 minute feed which has left me with one massive and one small boob was all she wanted.

I'm not sure what lessons we have learned from last night really, so any suggestions are most welcome.

Maybe that it's not hunger that wakes her but that when she does wake, she wants to go back to sleep by bfing? BFing is so much about comfort and security and safety for them. I'd take that as quite an encouraging sign.

Your poor DP must be absolutely knackered - lots of sympathy to him! But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I wouldn't be surprised if tonight she settles more easily and is sleeping through by the end of your 5 days. I think the fact that she did go back to sleep for 3 hrs without bfing is really significant.

Are you feeling any less tired for your better sleep? I'm not! (6am this morning)

Yes it does sound as though she wants comfort, hence the waking up when your dh tried to put her back down. Is a good sign that she wasn't really interested in feeding though, means you are one step closer to sleeping through.

I've managed to cut down the time i spend in with dd when she wakes right down now, the first night was a 20 min cuddle, last night i had to go into her at 1 and 4 but each time just needed to lie her back down and say shh. the second time she took a little longer to go back to sleep but didnt need me there which was good!

I dont think the teething/nappyrash are helping us though, maybe without those she would sleep longer but for now i'm just happy we have got to the stage we have-a couple of months ago it didnt seem possible!

DP has been surprisingly chirpy today despite having to work all day (at home though).

We have decided to take the softly-softly approach again tonight, so DP will sleep with her if need be. Saturday night may have to be a bit meaner though if she doesn't start to get the message

claireybee have you tried canisten on that nappy rash? It cleared DDs up in a couple of days.

It is a beautiful evening here after a pretty cloudy day so it might well be a late night out in the garden instead of the sensible early night we should be having