Feeling desperate about 8 year old's sudden refusal to sleep

[pjsgalore]

My 8yo DS has for the past three weeks been giving the most terrible trouble about going to bed. Last night he was in his room at 8 - and still awake at 1am. It's a complete nightmare. My husband and I are exhausted, we're also losing our temper with him so feeling guilty, and it's just turning a happy household into a miserable, shouty, sad one.

He says he's scared, and I think he is sometimes (I empathise because I used to be terrified of the dark). He says he watched something on YouTube Kids, so we have removed that. To help him he has a night light, the light on in the hall, his bathroom light on. And I'll stay upstairs doing laundry and stuff while he's going to sleep. That used to work, but it's suddenly progressed to him refusing to be left alone in his room at all, even if he can see one of us sitting on the stairs outside. If we stay in his room while he falls asleep, he will go to sleep, but will then wake up an hour later and come through because we're not there. This will continue through the night if we sit with him - so like a baby he can be up about 5 times.

I tried putting some peaceful music on his room, which worked to get him to sleep, but he then woke up three times in the night asking for us to put it back on.

Normally he's very good at changing behaviour if I say he can't have his iPad/PS4, but at these points of the night saying he'll have no screens makes no difference at all. It's like he's become completely hysterical. He has had no screens at all yesterday, and will now be having none today. Not as a punishment (although it is a bit...) but also to see if it helps.

The only other thing that would work is if my DH slept in his room and he slept with me, but I work four days a week, and really struggle to sleep with him next to me as he wriggles and kicks all night. I also feel like this is going backwards, and read an article from a child psychologist about how important it is to help kids go to sleep and conquer their sleep fears on their own - so loathe to do that.

Does anyone anywhere have any ideas at all - or a similar experience to share?? In all other respects he's a gorgeous, funny, mature, popular kid who does well at school. I'm also very worried about how he's going to cope being back at school with so little sleep!!!

PLEASE HELP.

We have experienced your pain. I'm loathe to say it but we have had a good few weeks now so am hoping we have turned a corner. The things that worked for our daughter:-

• 'crisis' meeting which agreed the rest...
• bedtime could shifted back slightly as she said she just wasn't tired at 8;
• routine has been bath/shower then down for tv. Switched to a programme followed by bath then straight to bed;
• Reading to just her then one of us stays whilst she goes to sleep;
• bedtime is split from older brother so he comes up when she is basically settled.

She wrote out the routine even down to 'pick who (cuddly toy) gets a cuddle over night':

We also had a good look at her room and let her move stuff around. She has the smallest room so she couldn't actually do much but it seemed to help.

It means we are both usually involved in bed time - so we can read to our 10 year old - but we were with the temper tantrums anyway. And sometimes for way longer & with lots of stress.

We'd already done the fewer sweets, put up a dream catcher, checked no light getting in etc type things that all the books say.

We do link pocket money with a star jar and have made bedtime a super big earner & been really strict about it so most ice creams etc & some activities over hols have had to come out of star money. Bribery seems to work.

Worked well over the holidays. Time will tell if it works after activities when tired from school and it's later. Keep your fingers crossed it does for my sanity.

This may all seem obvious - sorry - but we were at breaking point and felt like we'd really failed as she used to be a dream to get to sleep.

Really hope things improve

Thank you #NWQM - sorry for you but glad we're not alone!! And fingers crossed the better sleep continues for you! have taken ages to reply as am just so fricking exhausted!!

I like the idea of the crisis meeting - have booked a family one in for 9am!

I feel so sorry for him (though you wouldn't have thought so when I completely lost it last night!!) today as he doesn't WANT to be like this. He says he can't stop thinking of scary things. I also know what that's like - I'm a writer and have a very overactive imagination especially when it comes to horror/disaster. Will try some meditation exercises with him.

Hoping school might help too! Ie he might be more tired.

Well M slept with me last night so perhaps I shouldn't have spoken so soon! Am trying to remember the mantra that it's a marathon not a sprint.

Stick matress or ready bed in your room.
Let him sleep there
When he is ready he will move back

Can you try a few days of putting him to bed much later so that he is really tired? If he's feeling well-rested from the holidays he might not be tired at the time he is going to bed? My DC was getting difficult to settle around that age and pushing bedtime back helped a lot for us.

This might not be what you want to hear...

When DSS was 8 he and his friends got scared by some goth teenagers. He then got scared to go to sleep by himself and would come through to our room in the night scared, every night, hysterical. We tried everything, but in the end just gave up and put his mattress down the side of our bed in our room. About a year later, he just decided that he was fine to sleep by himself again!

Both DH and I can remember being petrified of the dark and nightmares at a similar age, so we were quite sympathetic, but the constant waking in the night does get to you.

I only just came back to this! Thanks so much for the replies! To be honest I wouldn't mind putting a mattress on the floor of our room, or even just giving in and having him in our bed - it's more the refusal to go to sleep at first that's a problem. e.g. I've had the most stressful day at work - and all I want to do is sit down with DH and have a glass of wine and unwind - but he just will not let us. Keeps coming downstairs.

Oreo - did he go to sleep alone at the beginning of the night??

And Embracelife (can't remember how to bold names!) that's fine but what would you do about the beginning of the night? I'm also concerned about how babysitters will cope!

You said the music worked- I wonder if you had heard of a pillow that you can plug an iPod/music into and it plays gently? Could you find a lullaby that he likes and put it on repeat and play it into the pillow all night so he doesn't need to come through for it to be put on again? Just for a week or so to break the habit and then he maybe won't need it every night?

That's a good idea!!! Will check it out - thank you!!

Those meditation stories might help? Could you teach him to put music on himself or will it keep you awake?

I find lavender oil extremely soporific, breathing it in really relaxes the body and helps with sleep. I use it and so do all my children when we can't sleep.

Where do you get it from Humphrey? Just drops on the pillow?

We had this with my DS when he was six. It was awful, he was petrified after seeing a tv programme.

The advice that worked for us was similar to what you did, but based on the idea that we regressed to almost a toddler like bedtime. Super organised cosy bedroom, very rigid bedtime routine, with lots of happy chatter about fun events, where he felt safe and protected (when we made bread, when we all watched a film under a blanket, when we went camping etc). Reinforcing that you take care of him.
I wonder if he could write down what frightened him in the thing he saw?
It sounds like you’re doing all the right things, it’s just taking a while. It’s awful seeing your children frightened.

Our ds has had these issues sometimes, he has a playlist of soothing music that he can play all night on his Alexa dot. It is voice controlled and he can do this himself.
Good sleep hygiene helps.
Having a stack of easily read books.
The emphasis on going to bed to rest rather than sleep so reading or listening to music is fine.
Sometimes having a few days sleeping with us was needed.

Our youngest is 6 and has always been a difficult sleeper but would generally sleep through once you’d sat with him for half an hour until he was asleep. But last year it went crazy as you describe and he was getting up 4 or 5 times a nights for 2 months. In the end, we put a mattress on our floor and said he could stay there as long as he needed provided he didn’t try to get into our bed or wake us in the night. He’s still here a year later but we all get to sleep through the night. I figure he’ll probably grow out of it and the not sleeping destroyed all of us so whilst this isn’t ideal, it’s a lot better than being woken five times a night and also better than having him in our bed.
On holiday he actually slept fine in a room with his brothers but neither want to share with him at home as he’s much younger.

You can buy it from Holland and Barrett, it is not the best quality but it does the job. The French stuff is the best. Boots sell it too I think.

I noticed the other day when re reading Sense and Sensibility that Elinor persuades Marianne to use some Lavender drops.

Yes, just a few drops on the pillow. Also a nice bath before bed with the oil floating on the top is very relaxing.

Look at the This works pillow sprays.

Re: night fears. I had and have this. I don’t know why, I’ve suffered with it all my life. I can acutely remember as a child lying in my bed suffocated with panic just waiting for the moment the panic was worse than the feeling of not wanting to disturb/disappoint my parents by going down yet again.

What works for me best is distraction. I found story tapes played really low a good way to drift off to sleep so that might help initially. I need to hear noise to ‘ground’ me in the fact that there is nothing to be afraid of so parents moving around, window open so I can hear cars and neighbours etc. As an adult I still often fall asleep with the radio on.

As a parent of small children I now understand my parents frustration (they were lovely about it btw (mostly!) but I also genuinely don’t feel it was a behaviour I could control or could have been trained out of.

Thanks Humphrey - will definitely get some!! I feel so AWFUL because I thought he was finally asleep and then about 10 mins ago he came in again and I completely lost it and really shouted at him - GET BACK TO BED....I'm a terrible parent at the moment I really am. Especially reading Moreismore (thank you for this - amazing to get that insight). After reading that I thought - right it will just go back in there and cuddle him to sleep - but now he's asleep - with my final words to him being shouting.......aaghh- SOB!! I thought 7 years ago our sleep issues were over!! I'm a horrible person when I don't get space in the evenings.

What did your parents do Moreismore??

Sorry - I mean when you struggled to go to bed - did they lie with you? Let you in with them? Or just expect you to deal with it?

Don't beat yourself up, you obviously didn't traumatise him as he DID go to sleep.

That must be so difficult on all of you.
If he is genuinely scared, I dare say sleeping in your bedroom for however long it takes it’s the best solution as opposed to bribery or removal of favours. If I was ever scared as a little child, nothing worked better than being close to a family member (grandparents, parents, siblings even family pet depending if I was at home or at grandparents).
Maybe leave a reading lamp on until you go to bed yourselves.
He really needs good, restful sleep especially as school is tiring at the beginning of the school year. And so do you!
I hope it will get better soon for you.

I remember becoming absolutely terrified of vampires at around that age. I used to lie in bed sweating under the duvet imagining they were coming to get me. I didn’t go down to see my parents but only because I was scared to get out of bed.

Have you tried leaving a lamp on in his room? Something much brighter than a nightlight (but not like a main overhead light)? With hindsight I think this would have helped me.

You mentioned music helps, do you have any way to keep it playing all night? Also definitely leave the doors open downstairs so he can hear you moving around and the tv etc.

Does he have something to cuddle? I know he’s 8 but nonetheless...!

How are things @pjsgalore ?