Can’t take this anymore

[Sunisshining12]

I have a 4 month old who fights sleep like you wouldn’t believe, day & night.

She has 7oz and goes off very easily at 6pm.

She will wake up around 12-1am gets fed, burped, changed etc in the quiet/dark. Has a dummy & comfort bear. But literally turns into a screaming fit that goes on & on until 4.30am. Then will fall asleep until 6ish.

I’ve tried it all. Rocking, shushing, music, holding her, leaving her to cry. Literally every trick you can imagine. She kicks her legs so much, she’s so so overtired. It’s the same in the day with naps she will fight & fight me for hours. Dream feeds don’t make a difference (she drinks about 2oz at 11pm if offered one)

It’s affecting us all as a family. We can’t function. My other child is exhausted from being woken and I really don’t know what to do now.

Co sleeping actually made it worse! Tried the next to me cot & now moved her into her own room - again no difference.

Please help. She was the same when she stayed with my Mum on the rare occasion, who surprisingly didn’t offer again!

My DD was going to bed at 7ish at that age and sleeping through bar a feed at 3am which she dropped at about 5mo so I don't think you're being unreasonable to work towards better.

I'd try waking her after a catnap at around 6.30pm then put her to bed at 8.30ish maybe? Then try to move the catnap earlier and bedtime earlier to match.

Thank you, I will try that gradually over the next week

Quick update- things are going from bad to worse!

Managed to keep her up until 7.30pm. After that, she turns into the exorcist. Last night she went down at 7.30, woke at 11.30 for a big bottle and took ages to get back off. She then kept waking on & off until 5.30am!

She is so so tired but I just can’t help her to get off. Then she’s too tired & angry to drink itms? Even now, she is tired but hungry at the same time & just in a right state.

She drinks lots before bed & in the night, obviously making up for a loss in the day. Basically we are not in a proper feed & nap routine like other babies. How can I help establish something to get out of this vicious cycle of fighting sleep, too tired to feed, too hungry to sleep. Feeling so desperate

Please please look at the mammoth link I sent you the other day... it’s working with our 10 week DD.

It’s more flexible than Gina Ford but worth sticking to. Be strong, sometimes you need to let them cry down, it’s hideous but the turning point was when we had to manage DD crying down for THIRTY MINS one night - it ended up being for the good in the long run.

GOOD LUCK

I’m sorry I forgot to reply - I can’t open the link :-( could you try again please?

I don’t mind letting her cry (tbh I already do for a short while when I feel at breaking point!)

At 4 months old she needs lots of sleep but is in a very tricky phase where she is coming out of newborn sleepiness and really waking up.
You can try this:
Wake her at 7am each day regardless of what happened in the night
Feed upon waking
Nap 8.45-10am
Feed upon waking
Nap 11.30-1.30
Feed upon waking
Nap 3.45-5
Feed again at 5 but a half bottle
Bath at 6
6.30 another half bottle
7pm bed

Put her down calm but awake. The most effective method at this stage is pick up put down. You can look it up, it’s not about leaving the baby to cry at all but settling them and letting them finally drift off in their bed.

Thanks Geneva, she definitely isn’t getting that amount of sleep in the day. She usually wakes up hungry but is in such a rage that she won’t feed (but all the hunger cues are there) eventually she will drink her milk & settles down. Then will wake again sometimes only 20 mins later, or sometimes a couple of hours later.

I get the sleep, eat, play routine as I did it with my other baby, the problem with my 4m old is even if I try offer her a feed or try to get her off to sleep at x intervals it will go on for at least an hour-90mins sometimes longer. So by the time I’ve eventually fed & settled her, technically we should be at feed & nap no.2 of the day. I guess the routine is all well & good for babies who feed well & settle well, but what about those who just fight it all?

How on earth can I make things a bit bearable for us all? Obviously we as a family are beyond exhausted & not enjoying her (sorry that sounds awful) But I also feel awful for her - she’s knackered & hungry & just generally wound up most of the time from being overtired/too tired to feed

Forgot to say - gp & hv weren’t concerned, she’s gaining weight well & actually gone up a centile. She did have a tongue tie & it was snipped twice. But she has a very high arched palette & possible slight lip tie, so she never had a great suction/latch. Tried various bottles & teats. We did suspect silent reflux & she has used both gaviscon & ranitidine - no difference. No other ‘real’ symptoms other than awake all night! Her bibs do get very very wet/some milk comes out corner of her mouth.

So my thinking is - feeding isn’t the easiest for her, possibly a bit tiring & not enjoyable. Then she gets overtired & fighting naps. And then even more tired so cba to feed (despite the hunger) and so just in a general rage :-(

It’s the Baby Sleep Program by Little Ones; they are from New Zealand I think.

Plug it into google for success xx

My last child always wanted to be asleep by 6pm, I hated trying to keep her awake. But we did put her for a short nap earlier and got her up, to go to bed at 7pm instead.
We also stopped the night feed as soon as we could - it was making her unsettled afterwards, and she had some reflux (used a wedgeHog (a wedge) straight after a feed which helped her).

Also: try one teat size up for a faster flo to make her work less hard x

So my thinking is - feeding isn’t the easiest for her, possibly a bit tiring & not enjoyable. Then she gets overtired & fighting naps. And then even more tired so cba to feed (despite the hunger) and so just in a general rage :-(
That's my DD. She has posterior tongue tie, massive lip tie, high palate. Crap at feeding, crap at sleeping. Gets mad as a cat about it. Sadly I think the only solution is time. Suffer through it. (Though we're getting the tie snipped and I've given up dairy because why not.)

I don't think a routine will work because a routine is predicated on the notion that you can MAKE a baby feed and MAKE a baby sleep, to which I say: ahahahaha. (That goes double for self settling/the pure bullshit that is drowsy but awake )

Burrito...how do you cope! How old is your DD?

Same, posterior TT & terrible mouth anatomy! Dare I say on MN...would weaning earlier be of benefit?

She's 14 weeks. She won't feed to sleep for naps so they're all sling/pram so no napping while she naps. I go to bed as soon as we wrestle her down and never see DP; he takes her on weekend mornings so I lie in. I drink coffee a lot... google "when did your bad sleeper magically improve"... stare in wonder at multi-child families in the park (quite aside from the sleeplessness, the logistics of conception!)...

I wouldn't wean early but I'm very obedient. And if she has this trouble with milk there's no reason she'll be brilliant with food. Plus I suspect she's just a crap sleeper. Bad luck of the draw, I'll get my revenge when she's a teenager & I hoover at 7am outside her bedroom door

LOL Burrito! True.

I genuinely think my DD is hungry but because she’s so rubbish at feeding & hit & miss, she can’t settle for sleep. Like the chicken & the egg scenario. Too tired to feed, too hungry to sleep.

Is your DD your first? I also have a 2yr old with a few of her own complications, things are tough atm so I guess the reason for the desperate post!

Weaned her at 5 months, she slept solid 6.30-6.30 as a baby but I didn’t know how lucky I was then!!

Definitely do not wean early just for your sake.
Could it be the milk? I take it your ff? Or are you pumping?

Dear Sunisshining12,
I feel your pain. My daughter is 6mo now and she always kicked her legs, fought against sleeping and feeding too. She scarcely accepts a bottle, and never a pacifier. We barely sleep at night and when we can take 2 straight hours it is a blessing. We are all tired, malfunctioning and we do not enjoy her during the night (only at night).
The partial success we had: giving her formula (and other food) with a little spoon. She fights less and eats more (still closes her mouth through the process, and it’s like “insert food when open”).
Regarding the sleep: after trying it all (setting a routine and etc.), what helped a tiny bit was a passiflora syrup (2,5 ml 1h before bedtime), lavender essential oil added in the bathtub, a green night light and classical music (yes, combined chromo, aroma and music therapy).
It is still hard today, but nothing can make me lose hope. I will share any progress and pray for us being resilient, patient and good parents.
Many blessings, and let’s persevere!

Update..5mo old & still won’t sleep..last night was horrendous. Woke at 11pm, had a bit of milk. Back to sleep. Woke at midnight & that was it until 5am no joke! Tried it all! Spoke to GP/HV several times. They have their own theories. Referred her to Paeds but long waiting list.

I tried & tried to move bedtime later😰 it is impossible. At 6pm she is absolutely spark out ready for bed. If we try to keep her up she is fuming. She will fall asleep wherever she is at this time. Try to wake her later on, she will drop off even sitting up on your lap. She refuses a ‘dream feed’ she’s that spark out!

Tried to implement more nap/feed/play structure into the day. Impossible.

Last week I’ve just gone by whatever/whenever/follow her lead approach. No difference.

When the hell will this get better.

Hi some of these replies are so unnecessary.
My youngest son was a bit like your baby but by 6 months he’s settled. Eventually we realised it was colic and it was the same routine same time every night. It’s was a struggle but we got there in the end. No liquids cuddles songs etc worked you just have to ride it out. Sending you strength and positivity you’ll get there in the end x

Thank you! Praying it gets better! Never known sleep deprivation like it!

Just bumping to say she is still unable to stay awake past 6pm. I haven’t started solids as she’s not yet 6m.

6pm comes & it’s like a switch she just drops to sleep. Even if I undress her & put her in the bath she stays asleep! Imagine someone that has had too much alcohol you get my jist?

Earliest Paed appt is October (by then she will be on solids!)

HV & GP not concerned as she is thriving (despite my battle getting the milk into her) but referred for another opinion.

Because she’s waking for the day at 5am it’s hard to follow the traditional schedules will all begin around 7am.

Any more advice? Please don’t say move it later. I’ve tried. She can’t be woken, even if her eyes come open she nods off head wobbling etc even with toys/music/stimulation.

Can you reshare @PaulHollywoodsSexGut? Link is broken

Bloody hell, that sounds tough, you're doing such a good job just getting through each day!

Have you tried putting to bed earlier, say 5.30pm? As she's so tried she cannot stay awake even in the bath by 6pm, maybe it could be overtiredness and that is causing her to wake in the night?