4.5 yo sleep issues

[Jellybeansincognito]

Argh, where do I even begin? There is a back story to this but basically around 3 months ago my daughter started waking up every night screaming, she would not go back to sleep unless my husband brought her downstairs (she used to fall to sleep straight away on the sofa).
Anyway she is screaming because she has always co slept and it’s been such a hassle trying to get her to not so when she wakes and no one is with her she completely loses it.

This has prompted me to start getting her to go to sleep without us in the room (husband takes her to bed and honestly it can take upto an hour an a half some nights) and all was going great, until around 4 days in when she realised it was permanent.
She is still screaming her head off every night when we take her, it’s been months and isn’t getting better. What can I do? She’s still waking up screaming too and tonight (it’s been a challenging day but no excuse) I completely snapped and have given her a very stern shouting at.

I left her to cry and feel awful.
She got out of bed twice screaming at the top of her lungs.

What can I do? When she was 2 we tried to stop the co sleeping and she basically had night terrors every night so we had to stop.

We’re at our wits end. Really are.

Help 😩

Bed time is always the same.
Brush teeth, either a bit of tv and then 2 books in bed whilst she winds down, or just the books/ sometimes a third.

We then say night night and leave the room. We’ve tried a star chart with a reward (which worked at the start), we’ve spoke to her at length about our expectations and what is happening, where we are etc, we have given huge amounts of praise in the morning if she’s gone a night without screaming her head off, we’ve offered her rewards for the following day which don’t even work anymore.

Tonight she screamed and tantrumed whilst I took her upstairs, I read a book and left and all she did was cry and scream hysterically like she is terrified.
She has been trying to get me to sit on the stairs but she’s been doing this with dh and it doesn’t help so I’ve made it clear I’ll be out of the room and asked her to not focus where as it makes no difference.

Argh.

And breath....
This issue is unsettling her brother too so it’s not just oh let’s leave her and ignore it until she learns, we feel a bit stuck and completely at our wits end.

Why did you stop the co-sleeping so suddenly? I understand your daughter - she was used to sleeping with her parents, where she could feel safe and protected, and now she suddenly has to be all by herself in her own room. Human beings are programmed into sleeping together, because it's safer. Now, of course, in our modern society, with apartments and houses with locks, there is no safety issue any more, but evolution doesn't work that fast and sleeping together is still very much wired into us.

Now, if you absolutely don't want your daughter to sleep with you anymore, I'd suggest that you start slowly. My daughter moved into her room when she was 5 (I didn't force her, only encouraged, because she had phases where she moved a lot while sleeping and kept waking me up with it). She went to sleep in her bed and was allowed to get into my bed when she woke up. After a while she slept in her bed during the whole night for 2 nights in a row, but didn't want to never sleep in my bed, so I suggested that we can alternate - 1 whole night in her bed, 1 whole night in my bed.
Again a little later, during another fitful sleeping phase, we switched it to one night per week in my bed. By then she was fine with it, because she had gotten used to sleeping in her own bed and it wasn't scary anymore.

Give her time!

She’s still co sleeping, we thought we would tackle going to sleep first and then we are going to transform her room in around 3/4 weeks and get her completely sleeping alone but for the past couple of weeks we have been telling her this to prepare her, she seems excited that she’s finally going to have a pink bedroom etc. We decided to change the going to sleep routine because we thought it wasn’t helping her sleep if she’s waking up being worried that she’s alone, with her starting school in September we really don’t want her to have broken sleep.

If she wasn’t waking up screaming we wouldn’t be challenging this so much, it’s just hard to know what’s best.

Have you tried the gradual retreat? So first you sit on her bed, then sit on floor, then sit by door etc until you are out of the room.

Have you tried a night light or a gro clock

Have you tried sleeping on the floor in her room to begin with?

Have you tried 'magic' - we have some lavender sleep spray which we use to help with sleep. You can get lavender scented bath stuff and Lush do a special 'sleepy' range

Have you tried the rapid return method- you put them to bed say you will be back in a minute (you need the toilet etc) then go back in praise them for still being in bed and repeat.

We bought the book 'teach your child to sleep '. I know it has stuff for toddlers so may have more ideas for older children too.

Thank you lorisparkle! Gradual retreat could help I guess, tomorrow is a new day to try!

I have some lavender so could create my own spray, I have a diffuser too that’s I could use in her room for an hour or so before she gos to bed so thank you!

If gradual retreat doesn’t help I’ll try rapid return, I’m going to see if that books on amazon too.

Thanks!

Good luck! I find sleep issues the hardest to deal with. The problem is you need the energy and thinking power to deal with them but when you don't get a good nights sleep you don't have the energy or the brain power!!! The book was my saviour - full of facts and suggestions not beliefs and preaching!

Sorry, I don't quite understand the sleeping situation now. So she is still in your bed? But you wanted her to fall asleep in YOUR bed on her own, because she was waking up while sleeping in your bed, when you were still downstairs and screaming?

Sorry, I wrote fast earlier desperate to get some feedback and realise now it’s not very clear.

So atm all we’ve changed so far is the way she is put to bed, everything else is the same.
She’s in the same bed, same room and still co sleeping. But instead of sitting with her until she falls asleep we expect her now to fall asleep whilst being alone.

It is not going well, it was ok at the start but now she just screams and screams and it’s horrendous.

I don’t really know how to help her, I’ll have to try some stuff from the post above but I’m not sure it will be constructive to get her used to me being in the room with her.
My husband was putting her to bed until tonight because he’s at the end of his tether and she cries for him so much he asked me to take over last night and I said a firm, it’s bed time now, night night and she finally stopped.

But tonight was just horrific for all of us and I feel so bad for shouting at her but it’s been months and we’ve tried to be patient.

Thanks for clarifying, now I get it!
Hopefully one of the suggested methods work!

You could also try suggesting a deal for her - at that age it might work. Like telling her you (or your husband) are willing to stay with her for X minutes after the night routine is done, so she gets a little bit more cuddly time with you in bed.

Of course you also have the option to simply pedal back ... is it really so bad to take her to the living room when she wakes up and carry her back to the bedroom when you go to sleep?

I'd also drop the TV as part of the night routine before bed - there shouldn't be any screens for at least an hour before bedtime!

Something else ... did anything happen 3 months ago, when she started this screaming during the night? Any changes in her life? Any scary experience?

Our cat died, he was really poorly and we had to put him to sleep. He was only 7 and we had him since he was 8 weeks old.
It was awful for me, I cried a lot for around 2 weeks, she often talks about him. Tbh I’d never considered this a factor until you just said.

We rescued a cat 5 weeks ago and she is starting to absolutely love him, we have tried to keep it fairly simple about our old cat. She knows he’s in a hole in the garden, I avoided the word sleep and told her that he was really sick and frail and died.

My husband didn’t really mind taking her downstairs but it was becoming more frequent and we thought it might be more damaging than helpful because she is distraught every time she is alone. She looks knackered most mornings as well and were just concerned it might impact her learning and behaviour at school because she’s not getting a refreshing night of sleep. I’m currently sat on her bed and this is the 5th time I’ve been up since saying night- she’s been asleep but woke up crying.

Our son is 2 and currently going through a phase of not wanting to go to sleep before 9.40-10pm and these issues combined it’s getting a bit stressful. We can’t clock off at all at night and both feel very stressed.
The co sleeping was impacting our relationship enough without the factoring in the current issue of barely seeing one another as were both dealing with our children’s sleep issues.

When I say it was a hard time for me what I mean was I cried solidly for 2 weeks and it definitely noticed by her.
She wasn’t upset by the cat really- she didn’t fully understand what was going on. She does miss him though and mentions him often

I understand it's tough for the two of you, especially with two small children.
However, under these circumstances, I'd give her more time. That must have been very upsetting for her - both the cat dying and YOU crying! She might be scared that you (or one of you) mightbe gone, just like the cat. Or she's worried and scared about you, because you were so upset.

I’m going to chat to her about this tomorrow and see if it helps- I went to the drs the other day and had a blood test and she asked me a couple of times if I enjoyed the doctors- you’ve made me wonder now if it was scaring her.

I can’t believe I didn’t explore this more with her 🤦🏼‍♀️