End of tether - hours to settle at bedtime :(

[hiccupgate]

DS five months takes hours to settle in the evenings. Tonight I'm over two hours in, some nights it takes up to four hours. It's draining and exasperating as I used to cope with the sleep deprivation by going to bed early with the baby and now I can't even do that.

He used to reliably fall asleep on the boob and that was that. Now he finishes feeding drops off for all of about a minute, then thrashes round in my arms trying to find my nipple again. If I try to transfer him to the basket at any point and do the "shsh pat" routine, he just gets increasingly upset until we end up with tears and crying. He will only settle back down with a boob. This cycle repeats itself until eventually he does knock himself out with a nipple in his mouth and I transfer him to the basket.

I think I've succeeded twice in settling him in the basket with patting and shshing only for him to wake up ten minutes later crying.

We aim for bedtime two hours after the end of the last nap, so bedtime is no later than 8 o'clock. 20-30 mins before we do bath, massage, grow bag, then feed in the bedroom before going into the basket. He's had the same routine for about 2.5 months maybe.

We get the same deal if we bottle feed him expressed milk. He doesn't take a dummy. He's up anywhere between 2-4 times a night, which I know is normal, but is becoming increasingly difficult to resettle in the early hours as well so very often he comes in with me.

How long has this been going on for? I remember my DD doing this...first tooth was breaking through. I fed to sleep also and must have been up and down to the cot 5 or 6 times - taking about an hour also - before she finally go down.

Have a look to see if you can see my teeth. Could also be a wonder week - lot of development at that age...plus late 4 month sleep regression?

It will pass! Trust me ! Hang in there!

What are day naps like?

Thanks for replying! Naps are pretty reliable every couple of hours through the day but only in the carrier or stroller (or car seat but we don't drive very much). He tends to do 30/45 mins in the morning, over an hour in the middle of the day and then a shorter nap in the afternoon. I suppose all this started about 2-3 weeks ago.

We've moved him into his own room now to get him used to it, but I'm in with him. He finally went down at 11 last night, woke back up at midnight, and then I gave up and he ended up in my bed at 1am. 😩😩

Also, lots of dribble, but no teeth 😬

You could moving bedtime forward. My 6 month old was going to sleep at 8pm until recently and bedtime was always a nightmare. Then one night we put her to bed at 6.15 and she went down like a dream. Now we do that every night! I think she just needed an earlier bedtime.

You could try that should say.

Thanks daffodil I did wonder if this might be the issue but then thought to myself that I couldn't deal with five-six hours of getting him to sleep!! Maybe worth a shot though.

This sounds just like my DS a few weeks ago, it's so exhausting so you have my full sympathy! I do think that from 4 months onwards is a tricky time for sleep with regression etc, my boy always fed to sleep and then went down no problem until 4 months and then it went tits up.

In the end I sleep trained at 4.5 months. When I say sleep trained, I don't mean cry it out or anything like that. I gradually got him sleeping a little bit more independently until I now just say night night and shut the door a month later and that's it. He was a NIGHTMARE so it can be done.

My health visitor recommended using gradual retreat, where you gradually support them from a greater distance. I started by just gently unlatching him when he'd clearly nodded off and seeing if he'd finish dozing off on his own. At first he didn't and was upset. So, back on the boob, repeat as soon as he started nodding off. Once he could nod off without nip in the mouth, then we did pick up put down and shhhh pat. This took another week or so. Then we started putting him down straight away and sitting with a hand on him while he fell asleep. Finally I put him in bed, left but popped back in every 2 minutes or so. I never left him crying for more than 2 minutes.

Apart from that, routine during the day was key. Unless we're out he goes down for a nap in his cot around 2 hours after waking, and i resettle him if he wakes too soon as short naps were making it worse. Bedtime at 7.

I'm afraid there was a bit of crying at every stage, because he was really annoyed about not having boob to get to sleep any more. I'm not sure you can avoid a bit of crying, all you can do is reassure them that you won't leave them. It took a long time, I expect a lot longer than if I'd done full blown CC but I do think it was worth it, as my parenting was affected by the exhaustion!

Sorry for the essay, it's just that I'm fresh out of this so it's still a rather vivid memory! I know it's so tough xx

I don't mind an essay, this sleep board is great for making me feel less crazy - it really helps reading what others have been through with their babies sleep-wise. I do unlatch him when he's dozed off...he just seems to wake up again once put down. I think consistency is going to be key but it's so hard when you're already exhausted 😴

I know, you feel too knackered to resolve to anything. In the end I decided I wasn't going to worry about anything other than sorting his sleep for as long as it took, got my husband to pick up the slack with the house etc, got loads of food in that you can just shove in the oven and just gritted my teeth. My mum said that she thinks that once you've really made your mind up, the baby senses it a bit....she also said to keep your tone at bedtime relaxed and breezy, because baby will hear if you sound stressed. Easier said than done!

Could you try breastfeeding him away from his room? I feed my chap in the big bed beforehand and then finish the routine in his room so boob and bed are kept completely separate. It was tough at first, but with lots of cuddles he soon got the message. He regresses for a couple of nights every now and then if there is teething pin etc (when I totally abandon ship and do whatever comforts him) but in general it was worth the pain! X

Should also add that my friend had an almost identical issue with her little boy and did the full on Ferber controlled crying business, and it worked in a couple of nights. My way took 3 weeks or so, but I couldn't bear the thought of leaving him crying. Could your partner do some of the bedtimes so it's not always you up there?

I’m just here with you... mine is a nightmare at bed time but it’s only like 2 hours to settle now. I start from about half 5-6 as she’s so bloody hard work. Won’t even feed to sleep either...

I’ve tried gradual retreat but it’s not working for us, so I’m using a fan and noise machine thing plus shushing and patting.

I'm not quite at the point of wanting to use anything like the ferber method yet, I'd much rather try more gradual methods first. I bought forward his bedtime today by about half hour and he seems to have gone down (I've probably jinxed it now...).

Has anyone had any success with Lucy Wolf's stay and support method?

That's what we graduated to after the pick up put down, I then just sat with him while he nodded off. It was initially successful and then he just got annoyed with me being there I think, which is when I started leaving him for a couple of minutes and he settled really quickly. So I sort of retreated from picking him up, then sitting with him, then leaving him for a few minutes. It's worth a go, as I say it worked for a week or so and then he started getting wound up again and I really think he wanted me to leave him alone

We've had amazing success with the stay and support method. She went from having to be fed to sleep every night to being put down in cot awake an hour after last feed and going to sleep with minimal input from me. At the start she required a lot of soothing and there were tears, so you have to be prepared for that, but now I basically just sit on the bed and read a book while she drifts off in about 10 mins. She's down and asleep by 7 every night.

No advice I'm afraid but just wanted to say I'm right there with you in the trenches! Could have written your post, DS is 4.5 months and took us over 2 hours to get him to sleep tonight with lots of tears - and that was with us trying to rock him to sleep! It's absolutely exhausting and exasperating but I keep being reassured it will pass - let's hope that's right 😩

Another option would be to add soothing sounds to the room, waves in a repetitive motion, that sort of thing, I have always had the same issue with my son who is now 9 and even now if he isnt stimulated mentally during the day he wont sleep well at night, not easy for a 5 month old i know but now he falls asleep listening to an audiobook every night he hasn't been to school, another diverting tactic could be the lights on the ceiling, moving stars from a mobile or similar?

My DD is 8 months and I'm feeding to sleep at the moment so I am by no means a baby sleep expert but...
I was going to suggest bringing bedtime forward. Like 6.30 or 7? Also I've only very recently started bathing DD before bed as when she was younger it was too stimulating for her and she would have a meltdown and struggle to calm down for sleep. Now she's older she enjoys her bath and it doesn't seem to affect her like it did.
But mostly I think it's Leap 5 (as per The Wonder Weeks). With my DD all good sleep habits went down the toilet when she hit leap 5 at around 5 months old! It lasted about 4 weeks I think then her sleep got better (but still not as good as it was).

I am doing the Lucy Wolfe method. It was hard going at first but I think DS is finally getting the hang of it. He is sleeping in longer stretches already and the bed time battle has improved too. I would recommend it, but be prepared for weeks of work!

candycats 💪🏻 it's hard isn't it?

allthecakes has it improved bedtimes? I think I could cope with the nighttime waking for a bit longer if he was easy to resettle but he's not. He ended up in my bed again at 4am because I'd got him to sleep three times and everytime he woke up within ten minutes 😩.

Celebelly that's great! I have heard lots of good things about the stay and support method - I'm halfway through her book at the moment. Honestly, I'd say the hardest thing sounds like getting up every day by 07:30, even after a bad night 😭.

Bedtimes have improved. For us, it made them worse initially as he screamed to be fed to sleep, but they have been getting shorter in terms of putting him down as he is slowly getting the message. He is getting up around 0600 though so we still have work to do

That sounds so tough op, for you.

Is there any particular reason you’re keen to have a set routine and bedtime? When DD was 5 months we still had her down with us in the evenings.

She would feed/snooze/have cuddles downstairs and at some point in the evening we’d bath and put her into pjs and then we’d transfer up with us when we went to bed (am aware that doesn’t work for everyone though).

Two hours sounds horrendous - does he stop crying/struggling if you relent and take him back downstairs or is it more that he’s desperately tired but won’t drop off?