How long for a baby to learn self soothing?

[ncdoddy]

Hi all

Like many I am sure, we have an issue with our otherwise wonderfully calm son, who is now at 6 months and not sleeping through the night. He's gotten worse, after a relatively calm first 3-4 months.

We've been advised that we should put him down to sleep awake and only pick him up if he's extremely upset, and even then, just hold him - no rocking etc.

We are desperate for help. My questions are:

• How 'awake' should baby be put down? Should he be soothed a little so he is drowsy or should we go straight to bed?

• How long should we give it of him crying before giving up? Or should we just persist for hours until he finally gives in?

• How many days/weeks of this process do you think it will take before he doesn't get so upset at being put down?

Any advice and input would be hugely appreciated.

Thank you

You can’t teach a baby to self soothe. You can only teach them to be quiet because nobody is coming to comfort them.

Not many six month olds do sleep though the night and it’s unrealistic to expect them to do so. Your baby doesn’t have an issue, it’s normal for babies to wake during the night and at six months he’s still very little. How often is he waking?

Sleepy but awake is also a con made up by the sleep training industry. Nothing wrong with rocking your baby to sleep either. It’s one of the tools we have as mothers to help our babies sleep. Totally normal and natural

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/sarahockwell-smith.com/2014/06/30/self-settling-what-really-happens-when-you-teach-a-baby-to-self-soothe-to-sleep/amp/

Thanks for taking the time to reply but I struggle with your reasoning. At the moment he’s waking 4/5 times a night and one of those times takes over an hour for him to settle again. Where does that end?

I want to teach him that he doesn’t need his parents if he simply wakes but of course, I also want him to know that he actually needs us then we are here for him.

Surely there’s a balance to be struck?

Completely agree there's a balance, and it depends what suits you and your child.

Sarah Ockwell-Smith is sainted by many people on MN, but her methods don't work for all babies - and co sleeping doesn't work for all parents either! My DD gets no sleep at all if she's in with us, so her book was no help to us at all. I have been tearing my hair out with so-called 'gentle' methods trying to get my DD to nap, and it turns out they are all too overstimulating for her and I needed to back off and leave her alone (in a completely dark room with white noise )

I'm sorry, I don't think I'll be completely accurate answering your questions but here goes:

From what I've found (and the sleep consultant I've spoken to) most children take 3 days to form a habit, so respond in that time

Going in or leaving them is up to you. You can set your own time limits like 'go in after 5 minutes of crying, then next time after 10' etc. I was advised that after an hour of trying, including 'breaks' when you are soothing them (this is for naps) then take a proper break. Turn on all the lights and go and do something else for 30 minutes

As for how awake, I think you are meant to follow their tiredness cues. My DD always sucks her thumb for example. I do agree with @Nuckyscarnation that 'drowsy but awake' is some mythical state that doesn't exist for most babies. Mine goes down awake!

I am in the thick of this and as DD is only 5 months and also ok at night (I have to feed her to sleep but she actually is going to sleep, unlike in the day) I haven't gone 'cold turkey' as it were as I'm only doing it for daytime naps with mixed results. Morning naps she grumbles for 5-15 minutes then gets herself off to sleep. Afternoon naps are a raging battle and I am stuck because going in to comfort her enrages her more, but I don't like the idea of just leaving her. I am yet to figure something out, at the moment she just isn't napping in the afternoon and is a mess by bedtime.

And before anyone asks, yes I have tried feeding to sleep in the afternoon and she just doesn't want to sleep!

Good luck and let me know how you get on x

Honestly I don’t think anyone can answer your questions really as every baby is different. Some babies can go down awake. Some drowsy. Some DD cannot be taught to self soothe no matter what you try.

One night when I decided to be firm when DD was around 12 months she screamed blue murder for 3 hours (I didn’t leave her side, was sat right next to the cot patting her, an attempt at ‘the disappearing chair’). Picked her up and rocked her and she was asleep in 10 mins. An attempt at controlled crying had similar results. I really wish I’d spent less time worrying about doing things ‘right’ and trying to ‘teach her to sleep’ and more time going with my gut and doing what suited my baby and got us the most sleep overall.

Mine is 2 now and still resists sleep, but with a combination of everything I spent a year trying to avoid - rocking (now tickling, strange child) to sleep, then co-sleeping from first wake up, we all sleep a dream.

My DD was waking the same at that age and it was horrific, you really do have my sympathies. I know it doesn’t feel like it but you will sleep again! By all means try advice you’ve been given and if it works, great, but there really is no right way to do things. If you don’t crack the mythical ‘drowsy but awake’ thing it isn’t because you’ve done it wrong, got the wrong level of drowsy, it’s because you don’t have a ‘drowsy but awake’ type of baby!

The concept of you being there if he really needs you but him not needing you every time he wakes is IMO to complex for a 6 month old to grasp. Some babies are brown able to self settle, but I think the majority of them just don’t have the brain development to understand what you are wanting to teach. How do they know that just wanting a cuddle isn’t as important as feeling poorly?

I hope things improve for you soon but please don’t stress yourself out trying to find the perfect answer. For some it’s just time. Good luck!

@KTCluck what a nice response! Thank you. I am going to try and take it to heart for me too.

I think you are right that you have to go with what feels right for your child. And I am currently struggling with controlled crying feeling right on some occasions and not others, I suppose depending on DD's mood. As long as she's getting some sleep I suppose we are winning!

I have read so many sleep books and tried many of the techniques - who knew that picking up your child was supposed to comfort them and not ramp up the crying to hysterical level ... Your advice is very reassuring. And actually echoes what the sleep consultant I spoke to told me, although she would say that because she would be out of a job if all children responded to the same book Much more reassuring to hear it from someone who has gone through it all.

Thanks for the replies. Situation even worse now because whereas before I could at least rock him back to sleep, he now won’t go down. He’ll fall asleep in my arms but start screaming every time I go to put him down again.

It’s a complete nightmare and every day is just the same mess, over and over again.

Sorry I can’t offer you any practical advice ncdoddy, but I’ve been there and got through the other side. DD went through a phase (probably a few weeks but felt like forever) at about the same age where she would wake and scream the second she was put down. Nothing I tried seemed to help, then one night she just stayed asleep. I hope you have a better night tonight.

Glad to have been of assistance DoraNora. I got similar advice when I was in the thick of it and I found it hard to believe but then one day I just realised things had got better and I could t remember the last time we’d had a horrendous night and it was all true. Good luck!

Babies fall asleep when they feel safe and secure. Leaving them to cry makes them feel the opposite of this. If they wake there are very few needs they can meet on their own, they cry because they need you. If you do CIO then yes they will start sleeping more after a few nights, but it’s not because they’ve learnt to self soothe, it’s because they have accepted that no one is coming to comfort or help them.
Self soothing is developmental, they all learn it but at different times.
Don’t stress about putting them down “drowsy but awake “, my DD has never been drowsy but awake her whole life!
My DDs sleep was pretty awful at this stage too, we started bed sharing and she settled much better.

Creatureofthenight

I understand what you’re saying, but can it be that simple?

Surely there are times when a baby wakes but doesn’t actually need anything? Or is that wrong?

Currently every time he wakes, it then leads to crying and needing us. But it doesn’t necessarily start that way. It just never ends in him going back to sleep.

Secondly, is it not an issue that he will fall asleep in my arms but wake up immediately when I put him down? That is something that I need to try and fix, is it not?

Ultimately I want him to be comfortable in the night, for both our sakes, and I feel the current process isn’t achieving that.

I think you’re thinking about this in such a way that your baby’s sleep is broken and you have to fix it.

It’s completely and utterly normal, I promise! I know it’s bone-breakingly hard when they don’t sleep, but he’s only 6 months so needing you to fall asleep, waking in the night etc is what he’s meant to be doing. Of course some babies sleep through and don’t need comfort, but they’re the exception not the rule.

Have a read of some sleep books and see f there are some ideas in there that you think you could work with. But in the meantime I think you have to come to terms with the fact that you have a child that needs your comfort to make him feel secure. He’s only been alive half a year, he doesn’t understand the concept of sleeping through, or how to soothe himself, he just wants you. And as a parent sometimes you’ve got to suck it up.

They all get there eventually, but stressing about it and trying to force a situation is just going to make you both stressed and sad.

Op. You CANT teach a six month old baby that he doesn’t need his parents when he wakes...because he does! He wakes up and cries, you need to go to him. @MustardScreams put it brilliantly in their post. Yes it’s hard, incredibly so, but being a parent is. Sleep is developmental. It won’t last forever, but until then you just have to ride it out

@MustardScreams that's a really good way to sum it up. I remember going through the hourly wake ups and feeding back to sleep every hour for what felt like forever. It's horrendous. It really is. People try to make you think you have to 'fix' your baby and make them achieve the sleeping through the night dream. But your baby is just a baby. And they need what they need. Which is your warmth, your smell, the sound of your heartbeat. It doesn't last forever OP, I promise.

Mustardscreams

Fair points, but what about the fact that he wakes up as soon as I put him down, having comforted him back to sleep? Is it not a problem if the only way for him to sleep is on me?

There are times of the day when I know he needs sleep but he won’t settle. Again, that for me is a problem as it’s making him unhappy, regardless of how it affects me.

Yes it’s true that babies can wake without needing anything, they can’t link their sleep cycles as easily as we can so wake more often. He may then need you in order to go back to sleep though.
Yes it’s not great if he wakes when you pit him down but its not unusual. I’m not sure how to fix it - we started bed sharing and later moved to a floor bed as my DD had a very strong startle reflex which made putting her down very tricky!

You sound very stressed but rest assured a lot of us have been through this. My lo started sleeping through at 13 months. We did nothing differently for it to happen it was just when he was ready. He always woke when we popped him down and it was so frustrating. Mostly he was hungry tbh. Bottle fed

A friend of mine had this - for the first 11 months of her baby’s life she slept in max 2 hour bursts, had to be BF to sleep and could only stay asleep co-sleeping with a hand on her mummy’s face.

Then, one night she didn’t fall asleep on the boob so my friend lay her in her cot in her own room and read her a story to calm her down. She fell asleep, slept 12 hours solid and has done ever since.

Only one story, granted, but I think self settling is a developmental thing. My DD started doing it at 4 months, another friend’s baby at 2 months and various other friends report a variety of self settling from birth to not doing it until 18 months.

It sucks donkey balls but it will improve. Sleep train if you need to, but CIO is IMO cruel at 6 months. Once they can pick up their own water cup, adjust their own blankets, walk to your room if they need you etc then that’s when I think it comes into its own.

PS My DD is, touch wood, a champion self-settler at nearly 7 months but does wake 1-2 times a night for a feed, and more if she’s hot/cold/ill/teething.

My DS is nearly 6 months. He was waking every hour at night and taking ages to get off for naps and at bedtime, needed me to rock him and seemed to be fighting sleep constantly. Four days ago I just started ignoring him when he woke up in the night, and at bedtime. He likes to roll around his cot, pull his dummy out and grumble and I'd always pick him up and rock him/feed him etc but I've realised it was making him worse.

I've now started sitting by his cot and letting him roll around and prat about for ages, just take my kindle in with me. If he cries I pat him for a little bit then go back to just sitting next to him. If he wakes in the night I let him try and settle himself back for 15 minutes and if no joy (and it's been a while since his last feed) I feed him.

Except: last night I didn't need to feed him back to sleep because he slept from 9pm-6am!!! Honestly a couple of weeks ago I felt like I was going to die from sleep deprivation, but things can and do change.

I can't quite believe it. Bedtime tonight took 25 minutes but he did it on his own, I moved the chair further away and he didn't cry. He was awake but tired because it's his usual bedtime, plus he knows that bath etc=bed.

Op, I've been there. I had to just wait dd out.

Babies have emotional needs as well as physical needs. You have no way of knowing if they are scared, in pain, confused - the only way they can communicate is by crying.
I think we have gotten so far away from instinctive parenting in West. A friend directed me towards evolutionary parenting- so think if we were still cavemen how would we respond to our babies. We’d sleep next to them and respond to their cries because it would keep everyone safe.
It’s really tough, my first was an awful sleeper. Second is better but when he’s ill we’re up every hour (until I give up and co sleep).
We now go with the mantra of doing whatever gets most sleep for most people.

In 90% of the world, this sort of thing would be seen as child cruelty.

My Asian PILs were horrified that we were planning to stop co sleeping after a year.

I'm not joking when I say my husband coslept til he was 8 or 9. Not out of poverty or necessity but because that is the norm in his country and a fair whack of Asia.

I'm not saying we need to do the same thing, but the idea of leaving a tiny baby in distress to cry alone is totally alien to most of the world. And I think there is a reason for that.

For us, about 14 months. My twins are now 2.5, go to bed happy and awake and go to sleep.

Until 14 months they had to bounced non stop until deeply asleep then moved.