4yo can't switch off and go to sleep

[cantmakecarrotcake]

My 4.5yo DD2 is having a really hard time going to sleep and she's saying it's because she's lonely. But frankly even if we sit in her room (which we've been doing forever it seems) she still can't switch off. It takes us until gone 9pm most nights to get her to sleep yet we start getting ready for bed at 7pm with lights out by about 7:45pm.

We have a good (if a bit shouty due to refusals to get ready) bedtime routine with stories etc, but after lights out she just wriggles and talks (repeating stuff if we're ignoring her). This last week we've been trying a sticker chart for not talking/getting out of bed/parent being outside room or downstairs and if anything it's made things worse.

She's a bright (soooo ready for school) independent little thing but has an exceptionally strong will and is prone to hitting/kicking family members if she doesn't get her way.

We just don't know the best way forward. Rapid return-type techniques just stimulate her and make her more angry. It needs to be something 2 tired parents could deal with at the end of a long day.

We've had excellent results with a sleep app for kids - Moshi sleep stories is a favourite here. It's a sort of mindfulness meditation for small children. I was really sceptical but it works like magic on DS especially on the nights he "can't switch off". Might be worth considering

Try having bedtime later. 7.30 or if you are really brave 8. I found the whole 'bath before bed' routine would hype my girl up rather than being a 'wind down' thing so if bath is part of the routine try not having a bath every day or have one before tea or something.
Have some toys or colouring that you say she can do in her bedroom if she doesn't want to sleep. Make sure it's toys she can play with that she doesn't need help with. A simple to use cd player means she could listen to story cds (your local library will have loads). Have a lamp she can switch on and off by herself.
Basically say she doesn't have to have lights off and be in bed but she has to stay in her bedroom and play with toys if she can't sleep.

Thanks, I'll have a listen

Our DD of the same age can be the same. We have had to ban TV for at least 2/3 hours before bed (literally, even having the news on didn't help) and long, long bedtime stories.

We even brought her bedtime forward to before 7 which helps. (She was always up at 6 whether it was 6.45 or 9pm that she fell asleep).

She still can get up in the night, but the times when we are stricter with the above are when we all get decent sleep.

She has story/music CDs already (she chooses the same story every single night!). I honestly don't think she'd stay in her room even if she was allowed to play but it's worth a try.
Today she had a bath at lunchtime after her swimming lesson and we only do bath every other night so I don't think it's related.
The later bedtime might be the answer but my evenings are precious (although I'm not actually getting much of one right now...)

UrbanMage, the tv thing might be relevant. She usually chills out with tv before and/or after tea.

What time does she wake up or do you have to wake her?

In the morning she's usually up between 6:30 and 7:30. We sometimes have to wake her on nursery days when she needs to be leaving before 8am.

My just turned four yr old is exactly the same. Nothing works that I’ve found.

Turquoise, I think she's struggling with 'busy brain' she's learning so much at the moment and she hasn't even started school yet! I just want to help her switch off for all our sakes. Bedtime is becoming a nightmare!

Genuinely, try no TV for a week and see. We just found it really overstimulated DD. I also play a lot of classical mindfulness/spa music in the evening. Partly because I like it and partly because she dances like a look to anything else.

4 to 5 can be such a difficult age .....I remember those nights loosing more than two hours sleep trying to get them off. When you feel like you have tried everything and nothing works. Some good suggestions above but the thing that turned it around for us was actually getting Sarah to WANT to go to bed / sleep. As a kids sleep solution this has got to be best idea ever to come out of the USA. Children this age secretly want to open up about their fears/ concerns or worries but often don’t know how. If We help them to help themselves by replacing negative thoughts with things they want to dream about as they enter the land of nod they will look forward to rather than hate the whole pre bed routine.It takes over a week of practice to get into this bedtime ritual (the Scientists call it Image Rehearsal Therapy) but the results are spectacular. www.thedreampillow.co.uk

We've had a lot of success with a groclock. Once it's "blue" mine stay in their beds or they lose their tv privileges the next day. It takes a bit of time to establish their obedience to the clock and tv might not be the right thing for yours but if there's something she cares about then use that!

I'd actually do earlier bed time rather than later. Keep it short. Pjs,teeth etc at 6.45 and stories until 7.15. 7.45 seems really late for a 4 year old to me...

I know it's a bit weird but mine get really over excited at bed time. We do a lot of chasing and tickling so it's all chaos but I find they're then properly exhausted when I get them in their beds and bedtime is really fun for all of us. The wind down thing has never worked for us so I don't even try!