Should I "cold turkey" the night time juice thing??!!

[batey]

My dd2 is 28ms, shares with dd1, dry in day for 4ms, night 3ms, was a reasonably sleeper until 18ms and had an appalling sleep pattern from Jan-Apr this year. But in May it settled into bed 7.30, waking at 5ish, given small beaker of diluted juice, back to bed, sleep and up at 6.30ish. I could cope with this as it was a vast improvement on before. I could even cope with the settling down faffing around that has gone on since May (it's a bit easier now). But lately it's started creeping up again. She's been waking at 11, 3, 5 and 6!!! Demanding juice. I refused at 11 and gave her a sip of water, but gave in at the others. Surely she can't be that thirsty? Is there somrthing wrong with her? Or is she in control of the nights (again)? I've had it though really, that's why cold turkey seems the option, dd1 is on holiday from everything so it's not the end of the world if she gets woken and we're not going away imminently either. Opinions,advice greatly appreciated from the Mummy who feels crap again.
P.S. To top it all she did a wee in OUR bed at 6 this morning even though she weed at 4.30. Until now she's never wet the bed!!

I think I would be tempted to go cold turkey but you need to be strict. I've always used controlled crying even to the Richard Ferber extreme of totally ignoring and it has worked (though last night we had a blip and DD ended up in our bed at 1.30am). I'm sure that once she realises that there is nothing to be gained by waking up so often she will stop doing it.

Can you give her a non-spill beaker with a lid by her bed? I give dd an anyway up cup of water by her bed (ooh, I love typing bed instead of cot!!) as she started doing exactly this at about 2 years old. She rarely drinks it now but likes it to be there. You could try with some watery juice and gradually phase out the juice??

I have tried the cups, that's what she takes back to bed with her. I found if I gave her one at bedtime she'd finish it v. quickly and keep getting up asking for more. I might try getting her a new style one, just for water, just for her. You never know!

I'd cut it out altogether. The fact that she's weeing so much seems to indicate she's drinking too much and it will be a vicious circle with her drinking, her bladder and tummy getting full so she doesn't sleep well, so she wakes and wants another drink (just an excuse to see you in the night, I suspect). If you're worried, get her checked by the GP before you go cold turkey. Being up so much in the night can't be good for any of you. One drink before bed then lights out and a star chart for staying in bed with a reward at the end. Worked really well for many of my friends.

Aloha, that's what I'm aiming for. Dd1 never had water/juice on the go at night and has always slept well. I'm not sure she'd understand a star chart yet, we're your friends dds/dss a similar age? Dh says she always gets what she wants which may have some truth in it. She makes such a fuss that with everything else going on, it is easier to give in. Having said that she does share and play v. well because dd1 wont give in. Maybe it's me, I do find it harder to be as firm with her as I was with dd1, as life is busy and she's very determined. Maybe it's time to pull in the reins?! Gulp!!

One of my friends uses a star chart very successfully with her just turned three year old - so it might be worth a try. My ds is younger so I'm not sure. I certainly know what you mean about being too tired to be firm, but I'm sure it will be worth it in the long term. You'll probably have a couple of horrible nights, but frankly, they sound pretty dreadful as they are! I think you'll just have to keep taking her back to bed until she realises you mean business. Maybe stickers might work better than stars as an immediate reward? Good luck anyway. Broken nights are torture!

I did exactly what Enid suggested with my first dd and my ds (23 mths) takes a non-spill beaker to bed with water in it (have gradually gone from juice to water over a couple of weeks)

Well, it wasn't so bad! I tried telling her through the day yesterday about no more juice in her bed, be like a big girl, just like dd1 etc. Didn't think it was going in but something must have, as she didn't wake until 3.40am and didn't get out of bed like she normally would. She moaned and whinged. I went in settled her by telling her how good she was to be in her bed etc. This went on for an hour! She got up a few times but never made it out of the door, at times there were big tears for juice, I just kept saying in the morning. So she slept again at 4.45, dd1 woke at 4.40 and went in with dh (they're both still asleep!) and dd2 woke up at 6.10.
I felt remarkably calm, I think because I've decided enough is enough, she didn't wind me up like she usually does. Anyway, still early days, but hopefuly tonght will be easier. Thanks for all the words of advice.

Batey, if that were my dd I would see that as a very promising start and would predict another couple of nights of pain and then a massive improvement!

Lets hope so eh?! Dh not busy with work today so off to have a nap whilst dd2 is asleep!!

Batey, I'm just going through the same thing with my 26 month old. She has been waking for diluted juice at 5ish and used to go back to sleep but had stopped doing so this week. I decided to fight it too and so have decided not to give her any until 6.30am. It is hard, we've had some disrupted couple of nights. The first night she woke at 4.00am, 4.50, 5.20, each time I went in and comforted her and then left her while she was still awake and she went back off again. She then slept through until 6.30am, much more respectable time for me. Last night was difficult too, I'm sure the heat isn't helping, but again with some gentle soothing she's going off again very quickly and slept through until 6.20am, I'm sure once the heat goes she'll be doing much better. I think she was relying on the sucking motion to get her back to sleep and needs to 'learn' again how to comfort herself back to sleep.
Good luck with your daughter, I'm sure it's going to be a few nights of some work but it will be worth it.

Thaks for the words of support. Last night was different, not sure I'd describe it as better. She woke at 11.30,4, 5,5.30. Each time she settled easily, just took her back to bed, kiss etc. no major howling for juice. All except 5.30 when I lay on the end of her bed while she dozed until 6am.

I'm hoping to get to the point of not having to "take" her back to bed if she wakes. but I'm really hoping she won't wake at all. She still has a nap of a hour or so after lunch. I don't know whether to mess with that or not. One thing at a time maybe. When her lunch sleep was eratic earlier in the year was when the nights went BADLY pear shaped! Anyway, we'll see........

Night 3, woke at 12, 2,4,4.30,5,5.30 and 6!!!!!! It wil get better wont it...........?????

I am having the same problem with my 18 month old. This has been going on for 6 months now, although he is only waking at midnight and 4ish and then rises 6am prompt. This has been really useful, but not sure if "cold turkey" will work on an 18 month old - am I expecting too much at his age??

Well, nights 3 and 4 much improved. Only stirring mildly now, if at all. Still more wakeful after 5 but will go back off and hasn't needed me to be there. Have switched off night light too so if she wakes it's too dark to get up.

Can't believe I took so long to do this, but it's easy to get stuck in a routine and think this is the best I can expect.

Janus, how's it going for you. Sonnie, you could try the diluted juice thing ie gradually getting it down to water.But maybe I'm not the best person to ask??!!

Hurrah! Well done Batey, looks like you might have cracked it.

well done batey good for you.As you say its so hard to get started on these things but once you do they tend to resolve quite quickly.

Well done Batey. From about Saturday night, ours has been sleeping through until after 6am, latest was 6.40am, blipped once last night but went off to sleep again until 6.30am. It has been so much better and just need to keep fighting if she does wake up (which I didn't do last night, naughty, but will do in future!). You definitely have to be strong don't you/

My ds is 17 months old. We put him in his cot at 7-30ish and stay with him for 15mins or so while he drinks his milk and falls asleep. Mission accomplished!! HOWEVER...
...he then wakes up between 10 and 1am for a drink. We used to give him juice, but gradually weakened it to water. He then cries to come into our bed and even then he still wakes periodically through the night and won't go back to sleep until he's had a drink. He can go through 2 bottles of water a night!!!!
If we don't give him a drink he cries and wakes up properly, then we have a nightmare trying to get him back to sleep. In the morning his nappy and PJ's are soaking!
We both work full time and take it in turns to do the night shift. What can I do to stop him waking for a drink so many times in a night????

HELP!!!!!

How about putting the water in a (big!) beaker and putting it within reach? If he cries to come into your bed you could then try CC - but only if you are happy with that.

I think you need to buy a copy of Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Dr Richard Ferber. He's a little brutal for some tastes, but he's a world expert on children's sleep and is very interesting on how exactly sleep problems arise. He has a lot to say about children drinking at night, and points out that what looks like the solution (giving them a drink) is actually the problem (it keeps them waking up by reinforcing a habit and also makes them need to wee all night so waking them up). Personally I would be quite strict as I cannot imagine how you are coping with such disturbed nights after all this time. I would offer plenty to drink during the day so you feel sure he has had enough, then comfort him back to sleep at night with no drink. If that seems harsh you could offer him a small sip but limit his nighttime consumption to a beakerful and no more. Just say 'all gone!' when its empty so he knows he won't get more. Then either do cc or comfort him until he goes back to sleep. I'd also start encouraging him to stay in his cot all night too. I bet within two weeks he'll be sleeping through. It might be best to start this at Christmas when you can take it in turns to lie in so you keep your sanity and don't get fired in the meantime. At eight months my ds was still waking frequently for feeds at night, and we felt deranged with lack of sleep and hated sleeping apart just to get some kip in shifts and had even started dreading going to bed as it meant the start of the nightmare, so we just stopped feeding him at night. Initially we didn't feed between midnight and five am - then between bedtime and five am and then between bedtime and seven am. When we'd cut out the feeds we did a bit of cc and it was completely successful. It saved our lives! I'd definitely encourage you to tackle this. Going to bed in the almost certain knowledge you aren't going to wake up until morning (early morning, maybe, but..) is bliss. I think if you stop the water, the sleeping will follow. Get him checked by the GP first if you suspect the water drinking is a sign of any other problem, but if he's onlylike this at night, it's just a habit.

I'd second what Aloha said - Richar Ferber's book saved my sanity, and shifted me from someone who dreaded hearing the noise of my son to someone who loved to hear his voice (in the morning!)

We reinforced it by having a lamp in his room on a timer switch. The deal was that when the light came on, it was daytime and he could call out for a drink or to get up. If it was off he had to snuggle back down again. He picked it up remarkably easily.

Thought I'd put mt two-penneth in, as I can now speak with experience!! The messages I got origionally on this thread helped me greatly. And for what it's worth she was 20ms when the rot started to set in,it just got progressively worse. The cold turkey definitely worked, once she realised I meant it and there was NO going back, it was all over very quickly. She now sleeps frpm 7/7.30 to 6/6.30 am which is just fine for our lifestyle.

One thing I would add tho', if you do this, tell any baby sitters, I got back the other night to find a dear friend making her a beaker up as she'd stirred a little....NOOOOOOO!!!!!