4 month old not settling - help

[Rmo26]

In need of advice as struggling to get enough sleep!
My 4.5 month old has struggled to sleep well at night since birth but was previously much better at sleeping. My son generally falls asleep around 8/8.30. He either wakes or we wake him around 10.30/11 when we go to bed to change his nappy and feed him. He falls straight back to sleep after this feed and sleeps until 2/3am. After that he seems to have a much lighter sleep and wakes pretty much hourly after that until 7/8am. Sometimes he wants feeding other time just wanted comforting. From 5/6am I'm soo tired from trying to get him to stay asleep that I bring him in to bed. He is still tired at this point and clearly wants to still be asleep but can't manage it.

At night he generally just feeds and falls straight back to sleep but during the day he won't sleep unless we bounce him and shhh him. He tends to nap on me during the day as has only recently accepted being layed down on his own to nap. Thid developed from his reflux making him uncomfortable laying down and wanting to be upright. I've tried to encourage him to self settle but he just screams. He reuses to take a dummy so we can't use that to settle him.

He is now formula fed as we have so many problems with feeding and is sleeping better than he used to.

He's not able to drink large amounts on one go due to the reflux, he seemed to have learnt to not fill himself completely in order to manage the pain according to the lactation consultant. He very occasionally takes 5 or 6oz but get generally stops after 4oz and often only takes 2 or 3 during the morning once he's properly woken.
The other problem we have is that he's soo active during the day we're finding it hard to develop a bed time routine. He doesn't want to sit for long for a story etc. He just wants to be on the move (He loves bouncing and is desperate to crawl) or being bounced to sleep.

How do I get him to self settle?
How do I get him to sleep for longer during the early hours?
What tips would you give for getting him in to a full routine?
Any tips for sleep training?
Thanks

Have you tried white noise or a lullaby? My 5m DS has always settled on his own at night if he has white noise (Ewan the sheep or more recently a Fisher price giraffe). We put him down, turn on the noise then put out the light. Most nights asleep by end of 20 min cycle.

He sleeps right through (9-7/8) although can be bit restless at times, although not fully awake. I put on some teething gel, give dummy and put on white noise again.

A wee foot rub or rendition of twinkle twinkle little star often calms him too.

It's the worst when they won't sleep, hope it improves for you soon.

This is not about sleep traing and neither should it be at 4 months. Many babies at this age have not yet clicked the day night thing, Bedtime routines would not be helpful. The source of your problem is the daytime and this is where you should concentrate your effort to help him settle to sleep in his cot for naps without excessive interventions from you or napping on you. The good news is that it is so much easier to work on day time sleeps than in the night. Once he has cracked it and will have a few good long naps in the day , sttling in the cot before he is asleep and going off on his own, I can promise you the nights will sort themselves

Thanks.
We've tried white noise butt not noticed any difference to when he doesn't have it on. He loves music so we've started singing to him before bed and giving him a massage.

He won't take a dummy to use to settle. Does your baby just lay there for 20 minutes before falling asleep? My son just cries which i find hard to leave so pick him up fairly soon to before he gets distressed. He's reliant on us slinging and bouncing him to sleep.

He's started this week to fall in to more of a day time routine.
He tends to wake around 7/8 I'd earlier he has an extra morning nap. He naps from around 9.30-10.30 then 4 times this week has slept from 12-3 although only half in his cot and the half in my arms. Then another nap 5-6 before bedtime around 7.30/8. He's starting to get better at sleeping laying down on his own once I've settled him so do you think your sleep at night will get better the more he gets used to napping in his cot?
How do I help him to settle in his cot without me bouncing and shhhhing him? I've tried patting him, placing my hand om him, sshhhing him, singing etc but he just gets distressed so I go back to bouncing and comforting as I don't think he should need to get distressed.

Thanks

He tends to lie in his cot talking away to himself, some nights will go to sleep quicker than others but rarely need 2nd 20 min round of noise. He also loves singing so recent routine change to singing twinkle twinkle, stroking his cheek then leaving him to self settle as had started to cry a little. If he spits or pulls our dummy I go in to put back but don't interact. At moment dummy largely used to stop him knawing his hands.

He usually wakes about 7 and DP will put him on top of duvet next to me before going to work. Will then generally sleep till 8-8.30. He'll nap for about 30 mins at least around 10, usually in pram then will nap again around 2, depending what we're doing. He naps well in pram or car seat. Used to happily go to sleep in my arms but past few weeks not interested and gets frustrated. Some nights will nap for 30 mins about 6ish before bottle at 8.

He's fed 240ml 4 times a day.

Hi Rmo26, just want to say that your experience sounds almost exactly like mine. I keep telling myself that babies are different. Some are happy to sleep 6-12 hours from practically week one, others (like ours?) struggle to switch off. Chances are if you’re doing the sensible stuff (checked for silent reflux, tongue tie, etc, have a calm bedtime routine, dark room) then it’s just down to your baby not being ready to sleep longer, unfortunately. I certainly don’t find it helpful to examine the habits of those happy sleepers, as I try all their tips and end up feeling like a failure! Just know that the sleep deprivation has to end at some point.... right? Also, it sounds like you’re doing the whole night alone....do you have a partner? I tried to be a hero and let mine sleep but it nearly sent me loopy. In the end you have to share the burden and do shifts ( if you aren’t already). Lastly, if you can work on building sleep associations for your baby (blanky, white noise up loud next to them, etc), it does help a little. I just kept tucking a cuddly under my baby’s arm as he was falling asleep and that has stuck with him. Oh and as for naps (allegedly the key to good night sleep), you want to encourage one every 2hrs or so during the day. We aim for 45min mid morning, 2hr over lunch then 45 minutes later afternoon. I say aim as it never quite works out....

Good luck and remember it’s mostly out of your hands if your baby really doesn’t fancy sleeping long stretches....

Thank you Katienotwinning! Nice to know someone else has a similar baby!
My son did have a tongue tie which after 3 missed diagnosis was discovered at 14 weeks and the reason why he was continuing to struggle to feed. He also has reflux (also diagnosed at 14 weeks after being continually told by the doctors it was just colic grrr) so generally hated laying down so was used to always being in our arms. He's better with both now so is settling himself in to a day time routine. He has an hour nap maybe just less in the morning. A 2-3 hour nap over lunch. Another hour to hour and a half nap on the afternoon and then bed around 8.
My husband gets in around 6/6.30 and cooks is dinner before helping with his bed time routine.

He has a bath, we sing to him and give him a massage as we get him dressed for bed then my husband reads him a story whilst I feed him. Then if he's still not asleep I bounce him to sleep.

We'd agreed before having a baby that I'd do the night feeds as I could catch up on sleep during the day unlike my husband who is at work. It is however now starting to take its toll! Initially my son was breast fed so there wasn't much my husband could do anyway and I think it's taking him a while to realise he can do a night feed! He did the 3am feed last night as I'd popped downstairs when my son woke so my husband got up to him. When he said I think he wants feeding I answered with 'you know where the bottle is' and climbed in to bed ha. Going to suggest he does a feed too as I'm just too tired now.
He just really struggles to settle without a lot of intervention from us so we're not fortunate enough to just be able to give him a dummy and lay him down and he settle. What age did your baby start accepting the teddy? I keep doing the same but he's not become tied to it yet.
Thanks for your support x

It sounds like you are doing everything you can on the baby front, maybe see a cranial osteopath too just to rule out any trauma?

I definitely think it’s time your other half learned to do that 3am feed . I now feel like a new person because I get a solid 5hrs after my husband takes over. Broken sleep may as well be no sleep!

Mine is 18 weeks and we’re currently not getting longer than 2hr chunks (sometimes less). He is attached to his cuddly now after maybe two weeks of me pushing it on to him. It helps him go to sleep but his problem is he can’t stay asleep for more than two sleep cycles. We’ve done everything and now we’re seeing a sleep consultant. I’m not expecting much but a 4hr stretch once a night would be heaven!

Some people get babies who sleep, and i’m Happy for them (haha honest!). This too shall pass!

Ha ha. Let me know how it goes with the sleep support. I have thought about a cranial osteopath. Have any of you tried one? My boy is 20 weeks now so I'll keep giving him the teddy at night!
2 hour chunks are a killer as you barely get any sleep by time you've finished feeding and put them down they're up again. I'm happy for them too if their babies sleep through although jealous ha ha. Most of my friends babies who are good at night accept a dummy and are quite still babies so their tips don't help. Doesn't matter what we try out boy is soooo active jumping all the time and desperately trying to crawl and walk and point blank refuses a dummy X

Is he in a regular sized cot? Just thinking if he’s active is he bumping into the sides and waking? Clutching at straws here!

Yes we saw a cranial osteopath for colic and it seemed to work. We’ve been back again but this time she’s been a bit vague and I’m not sure it’s trally doing anything. But again, lack of sleep means you will try anything!

Oh and the idea that mums can ‘catch up on sleep during the day’.... still waiting for that to work!!

We've moved him from his Moses basket to a travel cot until he's old enough to go on his big boy cot. He has slept better since then as I think the Moses basket was too small and noisy for him. We also stopped swaddling him as I think it woke him trying to escape from it.

He often pulls at his ear once he's woke so I'm hoping that once his teeth have come through that he'll be able to sleep better maybe. Think I'm just clutching at straws too that something will change and he'll settle. Either that or he's just training for the marathon at night and likes to try and wriggle his way round and round the perimeter of the cot ha ha x