Why is she waking at 5.30 ! AArgh !

[Tillysmummy]

Dd has always been variable with her wake up times. She goes down like clockwork between 7 and 7.30 every evening. I have tried to work out patterns of if her night sleep is related to day sleep and therefore cut out naps after 3pm etc and am trying to encourage her to have a long sleep 10-12 etc with no sleep in the afternoon to see if it makes any difference. It doesn't seem to although now I think about it maybe she has slept better with no afternoon sleep.

She is 11 months old and went through a good phase of waking at 6.30, sometimes 7 and rarely 7.30 but now has gone back to waking at 5.30.

Because she hasn't been well I don't like to leave her to cry and am also actually thinking that it is probably because she has been napping in the afternoon say 2-3 or 1-2 because she hasn't been well and sleep has been everywhere.

Perhaps I should try to go back to putting her to sleep at 10 ish ? It's so difficult to know because when she wakes up so early she really wants to sleep by about 9am so how do i break the cycle ?

Any advice would be much appreciated. She has just cut two molars and whenever she's ill everything gets disrupted but I wonder if it will go back to normal etc etc.

Hi Ellasmum.... I have two thoughts on this....(it's my opinion.... take it for what it's worth )

1. I don't think she sleeps enough during the day and I don't believe pushchair naps are appropriate for lunch... they need to be proper in bed naps in a darkened room. The 4pm one can be in a pushchair and she will drop it of her own accord.
   30 minutes in the morning is very short for a 5 months old IME....
   Is her morning nap in a quiet environment in a darkened room ?
   Her lunchtime nap can be up to 2 hours but 1h 1/2 is good.
   Do not assume that if she sleeps more during the day she will sleep less during the night. A very tired baby does not sleep as well as a baby that goes to bed "normally", a very tired baby falls into a very deep sleep very quickly and gets unsettled during the night

2. I DO think it is likely to be a phase... these tend to last IME about 2 to 4 weeks but she will go back to sleeping later.

Good luck..... let me know what you think !

Pupuce, I hope your estimate of 2 - 4 weeks for this sort of phase is right, as we're now well into week 2! We had one morning back at 6.45 but last night was 5. Having had a baby that has slept for 12 hours a night from 4 months this is a bit of a shock to the system.

I'm still convinced it's his teeth as there are now signs of number three on the bottom (still none on the top though).

Ellasmum, I hope this stage passes quickly for you.

Hi! I'm in a real pickle with dd, she's just got into a routine about a month ago but is now waking in the night. Last night it was 12.45 for an hour and a half and then again at 5.30; the previous night it was 2.30. She's wide awake and doesn't seem hungry, distressed or in pain and when I look at her she smiles at me. The only way I can get her back to sleep is to put her on my chest. Cc isn't an option - her cot is beside our bed! I'd be so grateful for any help. She seems so tired during the day, too, with huge bags undre her eyes - yet I make sure that she has a good nap even if I end up laying on the bed with her so that she sleeps.

Ionesmum - have you considered moving her to her own room if you have one. Babies can be disturbed by snoring adults and the peaceful quietness of their own room can make a difference. It is the next stage of babyhood which, although sad in some ways, can revitalise your own relationship with dh and allow you to do other things at bed-time with freedom - such as read a good book

mears

Pupuce - thanks for info.

The morning nap is in her own room in the dark etc.. for some reason she always wakes after about half an hour and is then quite grumpy as she clearly hasn't had enough sleep.

I have been taking her in the buggy at lunchtime as it is the only way I can get her to have a long sleep - I know it is not ideal but it is the best way to get a long nap at the moment. I think I am going to give the cot another try in a few days though, mainly because I am exhausted walking for about 3 hours everyday.

Ionesmum - I hope things get better for you soon.

Ellasmum... I'd persevere with the cot as you intend to do as I don't believe you are doing yourself or her any favours with these walks...

Pupuce..

One question - if she wakes up after 45 minutes in the cot, do I abandon that nap and try for a longer one later? If not, how do I get her back to sleep - this is an area I have struggled with before which is why I gave up with GF - although we seem to be on the road to a rough GF routine now?

Thanks, mears . We do have a second bedroom but we've only just had a door put in so we can get to it from our room (long story) and so we haven't had a chance to sort it out for her yet, but I'm working on it. Don't know how she'll react though - she definitely panics when she wakes up and I'm not there.

Thanks for the good wishes Ellasmum. Hope things get better for you too. When things are going well for dd I find that half an hour in the morning is enough, it is the lunchtime nap that dd needs to be long and deep. HTH

Ionesmum - unfortunately the next step in motherhood is encouraging your baby's independence of you. You may be surprised ( and saddened) how quickly she will progress to settling without you. Get that room ready and make that step. You will be so proud of her when she copes without you in the end

Oh, mears, you are so kind Dd woke three times last night but each time I got her back off to sleep fairly quickly without needing to get her out of her cot, so I feel that we have made progress of a sort!

Ellasmum... I presume you mean this for the lunchtime nap ? I would not rush in if she woke after 45 minutes... mine often did that... wait (behind the door if you want to) and you might be surprise that she will settle herself back to sleep within 10 ir 15 minutes. Of course if you go in, then she will expect to be picked up. Obviously (as you can see) this is a topic close to my heart....I really feel it is important for babies to sleep well and easily.... we are doing them a favour by teaching them this.
Having said that mine never cried the house down so never had to do CC....I use quiet self-assurance

Pupuce, my dd makes herself sick if she cries for more than five minute's. She doesn't cry down, she cries up! I would love for dd to be able to settle herself but I just don't see how.

Ionesmum.... it is very difficult for me to suggest things virtually
I don't see how you are with her... I'd venture to say that changing her behaviour would not happen in one go... she needs to see "you" evolve and by that I mean the way you currently react obviously "allows" her to cry up as you say.
I can tell you how I "think" you could help things - please take this in a positive way.... it is VERY difficult to do this without knowing you.... and if it doesn't apply.... just tell me to shut up -
When she starts crying, I would hold her very close to me, sing or whisper in her ear in a very soothing way... for that I believe that you need to be relaxed and positive... any sort of anxiety or stress is picked up by babies, they are VERY aware of these moods.... this would last 1 or 2 minutes at least make sure she has calmed down, than I would put her down and leave my hand on her tummy and maintain eye contact... continuing to sing or speak.... very slowly (but WITH CONFIDENCE) I would leave her. Once you have left her she may start crying again. I would not rush in because she may JUST cry for 30 seconds... just stand behind the door and listen... think "She can do this". If you feel you need to go back in, then do and hold her again. I'd repeat what I have just suggested.
I can't emphasise enough how your own confidence in what you are doing matters.

Good luck !

Oh, pupuce, thank you so much for such kind and sensitive advice. It makes a lot of sense to me because dd does respond well to me singing and being held, and also to a hand on her chest. I think that I could try this, our second bedroom interconnects and I could just wait in there. It has meant such a lot to me that you have taken the time to give such thoughtful words about my litle dd and I.

Pupuce - you are FAB!
That is what I do with DS but I find it really hard to explain to people without them thinking I am a horrible witch of a mother! I shall learn your post off by heart and recite it if anyone ever asks me how to get their child to sleep. The point of CC is for your child to be confident that you are there and you will come back if he or she really needs you and that it is ok to be in bed on his or her own isn't it? I would always start with leaving DS to cry for about 2 minutes. Then I would go into him and soothe him, then leave him for a bit longer and go back in. The longest I would ever leave him to cry was 10 minutes at a go and I would always go into him at that point to soothe.
Ionesmum, hope you get some sleep soon!

Pupuce - that is really good advice. Reading it reminded me that I used to do the same thing. Listening outside the door and not going in immediately is a must - it is amazing how a cry soon turns into a grumble then sleep. Confidence is definately the key.

Pupuce how do you find the time and the inclination to help us out time and time again? You're a complete star with the patience of a saint! I have certainly greatly benefitted from your advice several times ( with the obvious advantage of being a co-Gina fan.) If Mumsnet ever makes a profit they should employ you as the sleep adviser!

Thank you sobernow. Actually I do want to get dd into her own room but such a lot needs doing to it before we can - the only free time I have is when she's asleep, but because the rooms interconnect she'll hear me and I'll wake her up!

Pupuce, thank you again!

OK OK OK.... I am now starting my own fan club... it's 10£ to be a member and 25£ to be a gold member.
Membreship allows you to send 5 questions a year... Gold membership is 10 questions and a lunch face to face

JUST KIDDING

Thanks for the lovely words though.... always nice to feel appreciated !

Actually... I need a favour... I am building my own website for my new business (launch date : 2 weeks from now!!!) Can I use parts of your quotes in "my references" page.. you DO NOT have to agree but I would not reproduce them without your consent.
Thanks

Needless to say that your name or nickname won't appear...
I would use parts of what you wrote and sign it
From Mrs I. (for Ionesmum) - as an example

hi pupuce, would be interested in an update as to how it's all going if you have the time! hope all is well.

Hi Bossykate - I was planning to re-start the original thread where I had explained what I wanted to do and where I got loads of advice...
I was planning to do this in 2 weeks... when I leave the corporate employer and start my new venture !

Just showed DH some of the comments and he made an interesting point I thought... he thought I had come a long way in explaining my thoughts/views in a more thoughtful way... that's thanks to some of the rows I had on Mumsnet on GF and MMR....
So good can come out of having a VERY different point of view

Most definitely, Pupuce. After all the kindnesses that you have done for me it's a pleasure to be able to do something in return.

Best of luck - and let us have the website address!