6mo starts her day at 4am

[MaverickSnoopy]

She's my 3rd, I know they often do this but she's been doing it since about 3mo and I'm exhausted and she's miserable in the mornings.

4am - wakes for milk (will stay asleep until 7am if in someone's arms or if put down will sleep until 5/530am before starting her day). Naps the same regardless of when she wakes.

9am - 10am nap

1230 - 200pm nap

430 - 500pm nap

7pm bedtime

Sometimes naps are longer/shorter but all adds up to about 3 hours of daytime sleep. We have tried keeping her up beyond 7pm but apart from when the clocks first changed she screams blue murder - even when trying to shift things along by 5 mins a day.

I really want her to sleep until 6/7am for two reasons.

1. she doesn't get the option of an earlier nap than 9am ish because between 7-9 I am manically running around getting her sisters dressed/washed/breakfasts sorted etc. If she starts her day at 4am she's in a total state by 9am and is really grumpy the rest of the day.

2. so I can sleep as am shattered

Think it's partly a routine thing and partly a self settling thing. She can self settle but rarely - used to do it consistently until about 3mo when all this started.

Any thoughts on how we can help her?

Sorry I did post with paragraphs!

So yesterday she had over 3hrs sleep in the day? I always try to keep the day time sleep around 2.5 hours, 3 max otherwise my baby wakes early. Was she desperate for the 3rd sleep yesterday?

Yes very desperate. She was crying and thrashing around. Had she not had the nap she would have been awake from 320 - 730 ish. I have tried an earlier bedtime but when I did that she woke at 4 AND woke at 2am so I scrapped the early bedtime.

I'm trying to figure out if she needs a shorter lunch time nap and one at the end of the day or a bigger and later nap after lunchtime. It's complicated by the fact that she seems to wake after a short stint at lunchtime but will then go back to sleep. So I toy with either getting her up and giving her a nap later or putting her back to sleep and hoping that she stays asleep long enough to not need a nap later.

This is so new to me. My other children would sleep more at night if they had lots of daytime sleep so it's hard to know which bit to restrict. I'm feeling at the moment like I'm only going to get there through trial and error but struggling with a starting point.

Whenever DS has a bad night I start the day fresh - so no catch up naps etc.

Routines are all about ensuring the baby is never overtired yet never undertired before a nap/long sleep so they go down well. So from that perspective it might help if you follow a routine for a week as you might be able to identify quickly where in the day she is getting over/undertired.

I would always prioritise the lunch nap over any other nap, it is the most important nap & is more restorative than the morning or later afternoon naps.

Couple of other things...

How warm is the room where she is sleeping? Could she be getting cold at 4?

My DS is the same age as your daughter. we do:

7am - wake up (even if he is still sleeping!)
930-10am - nap
12.30-245 nap
5pm - solids
6-7 bedtime routine
in bed at 7
late feed 1030pm for 15 minutes (cutting this out now)

Trust me I'm the Queen of routines. My other 2 had loose evolving routines in place from 6 weeks old, bedtime included and a firm routine by 3 months.

The issue I have at the moment is really pin pointing what it is she needs. It's also very hard to get a firm routine to work around a child at school, meals and a toddler (my eldest 2 also have additional needs). For example I was planning nap for 12:30 today but my toddler needed the toilet at 12:20 and spent 20 mins sat on the toilet. Then I gave 6mo milk and she was asleep by 1pm, later than planned. So now I'm debating whether I should wake her after an hour and squeeze in a nap at the end of the day or if we've missed the boat and there won't be enough time to squeeze in a final nap (that I know she needs as she won't make it to bedtime if she has a short lunchtime nap).

I think I'll let her sleep until 2pm and then try another short nap later.

Ha yes, DS is my first - it's life on easy mode!

I go by Gina Ford...she says you can let them sleep 1pm-3pm and they could be OK without later afternoon nap, obviously you know dd best though!

Not necessarily easier with just one @alyosha just different and different challenges all round. I'm sat here trying to plan a routine for sleep and weaning that accommodates toddlers nap and school run (when baby won't sleep in a buggy outside!).

I've been doing this new routine for 5 days now - 9:30am 30 mins nap then 12:30pm big nap (time varies as sometimes she wakes up early but it's been about 1.5hr) and then 30 mins at 3:30pm. She woke up at 4:30am on Tuesday and then 5am the last 2 days. She was waking consistently at 4:10am regardless of bedtime so some fractional improvement.

She still can't manage to stay awake after the lunchtime nap until bedtime and needs a power nap. I want to make her lunchtime nap later and/or a bit longer and drop the power nap but I'm stuck because it'll mean being out during the school run and sellers categorically won't nap in the fresh air! I have tried consistently since she was born - she just won't do it.

Something I have noticed is that she's stopped wanting any formula when she does her early morning waking (used to have about half a bottle but only because I offered). I do give her a breastfeed (from my minimal supply).

I feel like I'm running out of ideas.

Is it her teeth? I think being awake between 3.20 and 7.30 is OK at this age in general but if she's showing signs of being overtired then she may need to slowly work up to this. Can you try bedtime at 6.30 and dream feed at 10.30/11?

It might just be one of those months where they are working it out as well as you and there's no real answer until it settles down a bit. Sending coffee for you x

Mine did this at 6-7 months but I went the opposite way you are going. I let him have as long of a nap as he wanted but only twice a day.

So he'd wake up super early at 4:30 and I'd just ignore him (he wasn't up for food either) playing in his cot. Bottle at 7, put down for a nap at 9. He would sleep until 10:30ish, then forced to stay awake until 1:30, then he'd crash hard until 3:30. If he was absolutely miserable around 5:30, I'd let him have a fifteen minute nap but that was rare. It took a week of a horribly grumpy miserable baby but he started sleeping in much later, first 6:30 and eventually closer to 7:15.

Now he's ten months old and last night he slept 8pm-9am without waking once. It's bliss after months of hell.

Ooh I see the logic! Hope it works for you.

Another thing...what is her solids intake like? DS has started sleeping much better after introduction of a carby dinner.

I don't think it's her teeth. I suppose the timings tie in as this started when she was 3mo. She had 2 come through when she was 4mo but has been in good spirits - apart from when she's tired she's a happy baby. We were doing bedtime at 630 before the clock change and it was even worse as she'd be up at 2am too! We used the clock change to push bedtime back in the hope that it would help and it has (!) because now we're just dealing with a 4am start without the 2am waking.

I reluctant to do a dream feed. She doesn't need the milk overnight I don't think. Yesterday morning she refused anything until 730am and today until 7am so it's not hunger. I could try it...

She woke at 530am today but she wouldn't even fall asleep in my arms (because to her it was already late) so now she'll be awake for 4 hours. I know she'll be mega grumpy and upset because of it. I've tried leaving her in her crib @Rtmhwales and she's fine babbling for 40 mins or so, then she gets upset but by this point she's too wide awake to go back to sleep and stays up until 930 nap and is really upset. Whereas if I get her up straight away she'll go back to sleep in my arms if it's early. I would do your routine which would be ideal for her except she wakes when we leave the house at 2:45, so I need to get her big chunk of sleep into her before then and that means a shorter morning nap.

She's 6mo today - we started weaning a week ago so she's currently just having a bit for veg for lunch. She's never been a big feeder. Her sister was and still is the same. However she has CMPA and the formula is vile so maybe she's just not taken as much as she actually needs. I was going to start breakfast today too though so we'll see if that helps too.

Maybe it'll just take time. I'm not really coping atm - my life is just too busy and this is the tipping point. I don't ever get a rest. I'm just venting now. I am so grateful for everyone's comments and views.

Yesterday we had a family day out
and as predicted she wouldn't really nap. She managed about 15 mins in the car and then 30 mins in the buggy. Consequently she was up at 430am instead of the more recently later 5/530.

I think what she likely needs is an hour at 930 and then a second nap at 130 for 1.5hr but she would never do it because of being out and about for school. I think I'll trial in tomorrow when we're at home all day.

I've now been doing this suggested routine of 30 mins in the morning and 2-2.5 hours in the afternoon for a week and a half. Except she rarely will go the full 2-2.5 hrs. Once she got over the shock she has consistently been waking at 4am instead of the more recently improved 5am. Today she woke at 330am. If anything it's made things worse.

I worked out yesterday that she's having between 10-11 hours sleep over night (including the stint in my arms) but she wants to go to bed so early that she's waking so early. So I think she needs to go to bed at 8pm but I tried giving her a nap yesterday at 430pm when she was furiously rubbing her eyes and she refused point blank. By 630pm she was hysterical for bed. Naps yesterday were 930 - 10 and 100 - 230. She woke at 230 when I was getting her sister up from her nap so by the time I could get back to her she was wide awake and I didn't have time to get her back to sleep because we needed to go to school and she refused to sleep outside so that was that.

How do I keep her awake until 8pm??

I don't think changing the naps will make much difference tbh - she's not getting excessive daytime sleep for her age.

I'm not sure why you're reluctant to try a dream feed? At the moment, she's presumably having her last feed around 7pm, so I'm not surprised she wakes for a feed at 4 am. 9 hours without food is a long time for a 6m old.

Or you may have to accept that this is just her normal. Could you move some of your evening tasks to the morning, given that you're awake with her anyway, so that you can go to bed earlier? She is an amazing sleeper overall, it's just that the times don't suit you. If you went to bed at 9pm, you''d be getting 7 hours' sleep, even if she wakes at 4.