Daytime naps - when did your child stop theirs?

[Eulalia]

My ds was 3 last month but still wants to sleep during the day. He will only sleep 10 hours at night, usually 10pm - 8am and then has 1-2 hour nap during the day. I've tried keeping him awake but he will fall asleep in the middle of his dinner, literally with his head on the table at 5pm. If he manages to eat that then he will fall asleep about 6pm on the sofa and if wakened will be really grumpy which isn't much fun for dh when he's just got home.

With a daytime nap it means a late night. I've got a dd now who is also late to bed and isn't really into a routine. I don't usually get to bed till about 11.30pm (with dd) and I don't really want to get up any earlier. I just wondered when children dropped their daytime naps and how much sleep a 3 year old needs and if he is likely to ever sleep a whole 12 hours straight through.

Thanks.

Eulalia, my children have all loved their naps and only given them up when they started school! I have two of school age now and two at home, aged 3 1/2 and 1 1/2. Biggest ds naps every day for about an hour or so, and little ds has 2 naps a day of the same length. As it is school holidays I let them stay up a bit later so I don't have to get up so early, but usually ds1 will nap about 2pm and go to bed at about 9pm, sleeping through to the next morning (about 8am). I really like them still napping , it's about the only time there is a few minutes peace in my house! Hth.

My DS, 3 1/2 years still has a nap everyday. He can't get through the day without a nap (today a prime example he has not had a nap and has played up all day). We still try to get him to go down at 8pm and he is up about 7am. We have a new DS who doesn't go down until about 11.30/12 and is up once, twice or three times. I'm shattered!

Dd (2.7) definitely gets very tired in the middle of the day but WONT nap any more. We have a 'quiet' time (video or tv on the sofa) instead. If she does nap for an hour (ie on long car journey) she finds it very hard to go off to sleep at 7.30 (normal bedtime). Personally I'd rather she was off to the land of nod earlier rather than later so I tend not to encourage a daytime sleep, unless she's about to throw a wobbly from tiredness.

A friend has a ds (nearly 5) who STILL has a nap for an hour on the days he goes to nursery and she says its a nightmare as he doesnt need it and stays up till 10pm on those days.

Eulalia, what is a typical day for ds? maybe a 2 hour nap is too long and you should wake him after 50 minutes. Is he very active/at nursery every day?

Could you try bringing his bedtime earlier, maybe by 10 mins a night until it's closer to8? I dunno, but 10 seems really late to me. My dsd has always been 8pm - 7 or 8 am. He stopped napping soon after he turned 2, much to my despair, and althoguh he was, and still is very tired after lunch he will not nap, but sometimes nods off if we go out in the pushchair or car in the afternoon.

Maybe if his bedtime was earlier you could then tackle the nap, but then the different time might suit him and the nap situation resolve itself. The other advantage would be haveing more time to yourself in the evenings.

Any chance you could try getting both into bed about 8 ish - how old is dd?

My kids napped till school started. My 21 mo old naps 3-4 hrs a day at 12:30 and goes to sleep at about 9:00 till 8:00am. To me though 10 hrs a sleep is a pretty good amount for a three yr old. I learned in the past that I rather have lost a little extra sleeping time at night then trying to avoid a daytime nap because my kids would be so irritable late in the day which made our evening not so fun. What time does your ds take a nap if he does? Maybe an early nap would help. Maybe 10 hrs is your childs adequate amount to sleep on a personal level. Some just dont require as much, but again 10 hrs is still a good number to me.

There's definitely a correlation for me between daytime nap for my DS and the time he goes to bed. He's just over three and if he has no daytime sleep, especially if we've been fairly busy, he'll be fast off by 7/7.15pm which suits me fine (DD, 13 mo, is happy to go down 7pm). I guess he dropped the regular daytime nap a few months ago, but he still sometimes takes one (usually if someone else is looking after him!) and then he sometimes won't go to sleep till 8pm/8.30pm. He wakes about 6.30am whatever. So Eulalia, can you try to get through to an early bathtime - have quiet time at 5.30/6pm with video or similar if he's getting really tired? Seems to me he needs the 12-hr sleep, you just need him to have it all together. Maybe if he went to bed without a nap at 7pm, he might go through to 7am - if that's not too early. Worth trying for I think.

Eulalia - for your sanity you need to get ds to bed before 10pm. I have been through the falling asleep through dinner phase so what I did was bath my ds BEFORE tea. When he was starting to flag I put him in the bath which got him all stimulated playing with toys etc. This gave him a second wind to have his tea awake and into bed at 7pm. It did not matter to me that he probably needed bathed again. He got his face wiped and off to bed.
If that does not work then start waking him earlier from his nap and bring his bedtime forward by 15 mins every night until he is in bed 7pm-7.30pm. You need your space without a toddler running around till 10pm. You will then enjoy your time with dd much more. Be firm. Good luck

Just to add to the great advice here, we have a similar situation to Clary. If ds (2 1/2) has been out somewhere for the day, this usually means he hasn't had a nap, so we bring his teatime forward from 5pm to about 4.15pm, otherwise he is far too grumpy to eat it, and he will then have an early bath and be in bed by 7.

When he's at home, ds could sleep for 3 hours if we let him in the daytime, which then means a 9/9.30pm bedtime, far too late (for my liking!), so we just give him a 'power nap' if you like, half an hour/45 mins, and he's then had the recharging of his batteries that he needs, and he will last quite happily until his regular teatime slot of 5pm, bath, then bed at 7.30/8.

Thanks for the advice folks.

He has NOT had a nap today, slept 10pm till about 8.50am today. It is now 8.45 and he's looking pretty tired so I should get him to bed by 9pm. He's always been up late, even at 3 months he didn't got to bed till 8.30pm. With him only sleeping 10 hours I don't want to put him to bed too early as I don't want to get up too early. I've kind of got used to the late nights, and it means dh seems him properly and on the whole he is no bother. But yes it does mean v little time with dh and I am usually too knackered to give him much quality time.

dd is 17 weeks tomorrow and is another kettle of fish as she doesn't have a routine yet but a lot of this is due to us only having one bedroom. I find it easier to get ds to bed first so she won't wake him. ds doesn't go to nursery yet but starts at the end of this month so hopefully that will tire him out. He's just one of these kids with lots of energy. At least at 10pm he always sleeps extremely well. He usually sleeps in the car if we are outand there isn't a lot I can do about that but at least those naps are shorter.

I think I'll just try getting up earlier as I should anyway and move back bedtime to say 9pm. dd ... well I don't know what to do about her!

Better get him to bed now!

Eulalia, sorry didn't finish my posting from the other night, brain not in gear. Just to say, know where you are coming from I very often think if DS1 didn't sleep during the day he would go down, earlier or easier but then I am too tired from being up through the night with DS2 that I gladly put DS1 in bed after his lunch and if I can get DS2 to go as well it is heaven!

Hope your amended rountine goes well, Eulalia. Just like to add that my nearly three year old is like this, too so I think I know where you're coming from.

I have (mostly) stopped putting him for a day nap in his bed - he resists this anyway. Instead he snuggles up under a blanket and cushion on the sofa and watches a video. This often results in a nap.

If I wake him up, even after half an hour, his batteries are recharaged enough to get him through the rest of the day. Definitely his power nap gives him a boost. However, I sometimes let him sleep for up to 90 minutes, but know this will mean an after 9.00 pm bedtime.

Looking on the bright side, at least I can choose either a short nap and (hopefully) an 8.00 bedtime or a longer nap and a later bedtime.

Also, once he goes to morning and afternoon nursery in September, I am looking forward to collecting a well run about child who will be zonked byt 8.00 ish at the latest. Looking back, my oldest son's bedtime came forward once he had a set nursery routine.

Demented - I sleep with dd so the 3 or so times she wakes in the night hardly wakens me, just enough to stuff my nipple in!

I was strict with ds on the sleeping issue but at 5 months or so when he was waking constantly he ended up in bed too. Then he was there on and off for the next few years. Fortunately he goes to bed quite happy on his own now and sleeps through coinciding very well with the arrival of baby 2. He did sleep with me just after she was born for about a month which I think was just reassurance.

anyway last night he went to bed at 9.30pm (up at just after 8am), hardly early but he didn't do a lot of running around as it was raining. Today is lovely and sunny so going to get out the park and get him to burn off some exercise.

Sometimes I do like the daytime nap as it gives me a break in the middle of the day, particularly if he is bugging me! or I want a coffee in peace for instnace at my parents house. And on those rare ocassions they both sleep and I can have a daytime nap?

Opps sorry about grammar etc in that last post!

Eulalia, DS2 and I just have not got the hang of co-sleeping, I have tried it. My midwife's suggestion is that I am too large on top (34G) and it is too difficult for him to keep the nipple in his mouth, weight of boobs etc. I find as he is getting bigger it is slightly easier but I find that he seems to end up asleep and I cannot sleep for his snuffling and snortling right beside me. Also DH has decided it is time to move back into the bed (trying to sell our house and decided that an airbed and spare duvet lying about was not a good look). We have gone for the compromise of a moses basket beside the bed but DS2 is getting too big for that now so will have to go into a cot. Just wish he would start to sleep through the night. Last night he slept from 12.30 to 6.50am which was not bad at all but no doubt is unlikely to be repeated!

Love having a baby but it doesn't half drain you! Find myself planning for when they are both a school and dropping them off in the morning and coming home and going to bed, but hopefully the sleep deprivation will be made up by then!

Demented, I am surprised you told your midwife about co-sleeping - I'd not admit it as I'd be bound to get a lecture about it. I am quite big up top too - around 34 D/E and haven't had any problems. Only thing I can think is that they are so saggy from ds that they are more floppy and manageable lol! Maybe you could try a pillow under ds? I know what you mean about the snuffling and I sometimes found I'd wake when ds didn't need a feed. I seem to have managed to train myself to ignore this though. Hope he settles down soon - I forgot to ask you how old is he?

ds had a nap today for an hour in the car so I guess it'll be the usual time again tonight. I am not too bothered for just now. Maybe once school holidays are over and he starts nursery I can start on an earlier regime. I can hardly complain as I've been lazy myself lying in till after 8 some days. Now I just need to get him potty trained ....!

Eulalia, I didn't so much tell her I had intended co-sleeping with DS more that I wanted to feed him lying down at night as I was tired. I ended up with a sore nipple as I had dozed off while feeding him and it was then she told me I was probably too big to feed lying down. I will try the pillow idea, I don't think we will co-sleep now but it would make the early morning feed easier.

DS2 is 10 weeks and DS1 3 1/2, he is starting playgroup in August and like you I feel that will help with the routine, if nothing else really tire them out, hopefully less arguments about bed time. I don't know about the daytime nap once he is at playgroup (taking this option in place of three year old nursery place) I'm not sure if I want him coming back from playgroup to eat lunch then sleep but I suppose we will have to see.

All the best with the potty training!

Surprised you would get a lecture from your midwife about co-sleeping unless, unbeknown to us, you are a chain-smoking, drug taking heavy drinker

On the opposite end of the reality scale - my MIL recently asserted that I'm obviously too soft on ds for allowing him an afternoon nap, and for not insiting he sleeps through the night - ds is 5 months!

Not all advice is good advice (apart, of course, from advice from our friends on mumsnet)- so do whatever makes you and you wee ones happy.

Off topic, but just a query about co-sleeping for Eulalia and Mears - I could never get the hang of this. Always found myself at some terribly awkward angle with DS tucked under my arm, and my back aching. Or carefully inching myself away from sleeping DS only to find there was no room left in the bed for me! And how did you get over the fear of DS falling out? If there is a next time, would want to try and make it work better (other than buying a bigger bed!).

Now DS thinks bed is a place for having fun rather than sleeping - he tries to feed on all fours, upside down, or chooses the opposite breast and launches himself across my body - not really a very restful activity esp at 6am in the morning....

Thanks Demented - ds is showing no signs of using the potty but trying not to get stressed about it. Nursery says no problem about nappies (wait till the day they get a pooey one !

mears - I didn't really get any advice about co-sleeping, just lots of leaflets about SIDS and putting the baby to sleep flat on back in the cot etc?

florenceuk - with ds I used to tuck his head under my armpit but yes I did have a few nights with arm up in an awkward position. As he got older though he didn't need to be latched on so much. dd is much easier as she can latch on and then afterwards move away and she's not so fussed. In fact I can turn over and she seems quite happy to know I am nearby. She also feeds v quickly and doesn't need winded. In fact hardly needed winded at night even from birth. I think the co-sleeping topic has been discussed before if you want to do a search. As for falling out, well I don't sleep with poor dh so there is plenty of room. ds used to fall out of bed when he was a bit older (over a year old) but it never hurt him and I think it only happened maybe 4 times. You can get bed guards though.

I did not co-sleep in the true sense. I always brought my babies into bed to feed at night and usually fell back to sleep myself. The resulting uncomfortable position used to then wake me back up and I would slide the usually slumbering baby back into his/her cradle/cot.

Eulalia - in our hospital we have bedguards for mothers in bed feeding their babies. Advice is given about co-sleeping and is not discouraged except for the reasons I mentioned before.

DS is 19 months. Sleeps from aprox 7.45pm to between 7 and 8 am although he will often wake up 2/3 times in the night. But only has to be told to go back to sleep, straightened up in the cot etc. So probably disturbs us more than him.

But ever since we have got back from a week's holiday 10 days ago he has refused to take a nap without a lot of hassle. Please tell me that this is because of the break in his routine and not that he no longer needs a nap!!! Also he is sleeping about 1.25 - 1.5 hours at nursery (3 days a week) suggesting he does need the nap.

I can't believe I am posting a sleep query - I thought we had all that sorted....

For what it's worhm I think he still needs it... at least until he is 2... (nursery is proof that he still needs it)
Just be firm.... he will put up a fuss but will soon realise that he needs his nap.

Bozzza - agree that you must be firm, my DS's 'routine' was upset on holiday, particularly as we were camping which made 'bed time' difficult (too noisy) however I just stuck it out, firmly closing the door for his after lunch nap - & keeping it closed until he yelled himself to sleep - after a couple of days it was back to normal - 2-3 hour nap in the afternoon and 11 - 12 hours at night - he's 18 months.

I asked my MIL when DH gave up his naps (my over 2 1/2 yr old dd still sleeps for about 90 mins through the day). He only gave it up when he went to school!