5 week old naps okay but bedtime NOT!

[ACH2509]

My 5 week old ds2 goes down beautifully for his naps, I put him down awake in his cot (in a sleeping bag in a Sleepyhead) and he drifts off to sleep. He wakes after 30 mins on the dot but if I leave him he will wriggle and chat and eventually resettle and go back to sleep.
At bedtime however- different story. Either he doesn't settle at all or he does but like at nap time wakes after 30 mins, at bedtime though he doesn't resettle but the wriggling and chatting escalates to crying. He is usually down for bed between 6.30 and 7pm and once he's woken we can't get him back to sleep til well past 8pm. I have a 4.5 year old ds1 who I am putting to bed between 7 and 7.30pm, exactly when this happens so it is very difficult as I am often alone with the children at bedtime.
Once he has resettled he sleeps well, waking between 12 and 1am to feed and then again around 4am. He goes back in his cot awake and puts himself back to sleep after these feeds.
I thought maybe ds2 was overtired at bedtime as waking after 30 mins and then struggling to resettle is a classic sign of over-tiredness so yesterday I let him nap as much as he wanted during the daytime (I have been working to get him into a routine) but it didn't make any difference. I can't realistically move his bedtime any earlier- we have already moved dinner time for ds1 earlier to 5.30pm to accommodate me taking ds2 up at 6pm.
Any thoughts would be really appreciated! Thanks.

Bedtime could be a little early for him at 5 weeks? You could try putting him to bed at 8 and gradually move bedtime earlier by 15 mins every few days?

Thanks for responding Mexie, so would I then give him an extra nap as his last is currently from 4 til 5 and there's no way he would last from 5 til 8...?
I was trying to establish a 7 to 7 routine, but he couldn't make it to 7pm, hence the 6.30pm.

Most young babies have an unsettled period in 24 hours. At 5 weeks he has not the maturity to know day from night. Far too early to go for a routine. Better at 3 months. There is no bedtime. let him nap as long as he wants in the day. His body will learn to regulate. A good long sleep in the day will eventually swing round to the night. Don't rush things. He should be leading the pattern at this age, not you

I generally do a half hour nap one and a half hours before sleep - any longer and I can't get her to sleep at bedtime. I agree that 5 weeks is early for routine, I think we got into a good bedtime routine around 3 months.

I think realistically a 5wo is not old enough to have a proper routine. At this age it’s usual for them to be quite unsettled in the evenings (google the baby “witching hour”) and their circadian rhythms aren’t developed enough to know night from day. I wouldn’t worry too much about a fixed routine but just do naps when tired and aim for bed around 9-10pm.

We considered it a bonus if we got ours down before midnight at that age! We didn’t start getting a regular 7pm bedtime until around 9-10 weeks.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I think his circadian rhythm is not too bad as he only wakes twice to feed in the night and goes straight back to sleep afterwards (touch wood!!).
The biggest problem is the waking after a short nap/sleep- this morning it was down to 20 mins and he couldn't resettle himself which given time with naps he has been able to do until now, but not at bedtime. Any thoughts on getting past this very short napping?

Any thoughts on getting past this very short napping?

Time. 5 weeks is still very very young to have a reliable routine.

At 5 weeks DD was cluster feeding from 7ish until often midnight, I can’t imagine having tried to get her down into a cot at that time. As she’s got a bit older she’s started going into her solid sleep earlier but it’s still never been before 9pm and she’s 4 months now. It is a pain when I’m alone with her and DS (2.5), I just bath her with him. Get her into sleepsuit, leave her to whinge briefly while I get him out of the bath and into pjs, clean teeth etc. Then read his books while feeding her and sit with him while he falls asleep still feeding her. I don’t think there’s much chance of a 5 week old going to bed at 7pm - sorry!

Mine (DC3) is 10 weeks. After getting DD1 and 2 to bed at 7 I bring him down, feed him and try and settle him in his sleepyhead next to me on the sofa. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I often need to resettle every 40 mins or so. I then take him upstairs to bed with me at 10.30pm ish, feed and put down in his crib. Last night he then fed at 4.15am, up for the day at 7 (which I feel is pretty amazing for 10 weeks!).
Are you putting him in a room on his own at 7pm?

I think 5 weeks is very early for even a set 'bedtime'. At that age DD just slept when she wanted.

Our 4.5 week old DD goes down somewhere between 8-9, but that's only because she's well ready by then. Are you popping your baba down at that time because they appear ready or more to fit in with your family's needs? It's tough when you have another isn't it (we have a 6yo too). All I can advise is going with the flow of what baba wants for now then try and implement more structure bedtime wise a few more weeks down the line. However I am no expert! Congratulations to you all btw!

Hi Thanks all for your views.
I am getting him ready for bed at this time as he is ready- he gets overtired if I keep him up longer. Actually in the days since my initial post things have settled down a bit, he likes to cluster feed around bedtime which is fine and is usually full and fast asleep at 8pm and sleeps til between midnight and 1 when he feeds and goes straight back to sleep then feeds again sometime between 4 and 5.30 and back to sleep til around 7.30am.
I am sure things will change over and over again but for us at least a loose routine is the way forward- everyone has to figure this stuff out for themselves.