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Mattress question

16 replies

Pebblesandblamblam · 11/03/2019 07:34

Will be ftm in the summer. Friend has really kindly given us her moba moses basket. The mattress has only been used by her 6 month baby girl. Is it fine for us to use that mattress for our baby?

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CautiouslyPessimistic · 11/03/2019 12:46

As far as I know it's not recommended to reuse any mattress for a new baby, even if you know its history. My sister and I handed a Moses basket back and forth which has now had three different mattresses purchased for it for three different babies 🙄

Pebblesandblamblam · 11/03/2019 17:38

Thanks @CautiouslyPessimistic

That's a lot of mattresses! Do you happen to know the reason why?

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Bees1 · 11/03/2019 20:23

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/what-you-need-for-baby/

I thought the above link might help. Reading between the lines the ‘new mattress for each baby’ looks like it is advice to prevent people being daft and using a really old saggy mattress that could increase the risk of SIDS.

Yellowcar2 · 11/03/2019 20:30

I'm not 100% sure why either but I bought new Moses and cot mattresses for my 3 DC - just in case

CautiouslyPessimistic · 11/03/2019 21:49

Same as yellowcar: opting for safety over being sorry without really knowing why! I had heard something to do with a possible link between sids and mattress bacteria, though 🤷‍♀️

Honestly it's a major peeve of mine that the safe sleep guidance is issued as blanket rules with very little explanation or context - makes it nearly impossible to make informed decisions and not just opt for kneejerk defensive decision-making, especially when there are so many choices to make.

Miljah · 11/03/2019 22:29

When my DSs were babies18-20 years ago, there was one Moses basket that did the rounds of all of us in the Close I lived in!

Sure, it was a naice area, the basket was spotless, we put our own waterproof cover on the mattress.

Somehow they all survived 😂

Pebblesandblamblam · 13/03/2019 08:45

Thank you all! I agree, its really frustrating that no reason is given for needing a new mattress. Still, probably not a risk I will take!

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riddles26 · 13/03/2019 09:46

By my understanding, it is the mix of secretions (sweat, sick, wee etc) that end up on the mattress combined with storage variables that creates the risk. I had my 2 close together and my sister in law in between so we haven't replaced our next2me mattress as it has been in constant use without needing storage. We have however, used high quality waterproof mattress protectors and regularly ensured that any accidents never reached the mattress.

Given cost of moses basket mattresses are minimal, I would replace to be on safe side but if it was a crib mattress that had been in the family, in constant use and well cared for, I would be inclined to use for upto 3 children. My baby will be ready for cot in the next few weeks so toddler will move into the bed - I will also not be replacing that mattress for same reason (we have Little Green Sheep Twist so I will turn it back onto firm side for baby)

FlameIngSofa · 14/03/2019 12:07

One of the important contributors to cot deaths was antimony - used as a flame retardant. Secretions from babies into mattresses can produce a certain bacteria which then mixes with antimony to produce deadly stibine gas. Anitmony is still used in babies' (and adult's) mattresses in the UK. Other toxic flame retardants are used too, in order to meet the requirements of our furniture flammability laws. These are the toughest in the world but they don't work!

I'd strongly recommend that you don't buy any upholstered products for your baby that are sold in the UK - mattresses, buggies, Moses baskets, etc. Buy from the EU via the internet. Or, if you can afford it, buy UK mattresses that do not contain flame retardants - but make absolutely sure by checking with the supplier, e.g. make sure they don't use antimony.

FlameIngSofa · 14/03/2019 12:08

Sorry, I said antimony WAS a contributor to cot deaths; unfortunately, it still is.

CautiouslyPessimistic · 14/03/2019 20:08

Flame: that's been raised as a possible factor but I believe several studies have shown no link. It would be helpful not to raise it as though it were a proven conspiracy of some kind.

FlameIngSofa · 14/03/2019 20:34

The history of cot death and antimony is, as I'm sure you're aware, a controversial one. From my own experiences with the chemical industry I can feel fairly safe in saying that the outcomes from the cot death inquiries were, let's say, somewhat steered by industry's needs.

What is not in doubt is the fact that there are literally hundreds of papers which demonstrate a strong link between flame retardants and a whole raft of illnesses. One example is organophosphates. These were banned from crop sprays and sheep dip because they're so toxic. This left the chemical industry with a new market to find. So now they're used in our furniture as a flame retardant - including children's mattresses.

There's no 'conspiracy' in this; just facts. For example, California and several other US states have been systematically banning flame retardants from their furniture over the past few years - because (as set out by the State of California recently) the evidence for the harm that FRs cause health and the environment is 'overwhelming'. Similarly, the rest of the EU won't have FRs in their upholstered furniture.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy when I say that not only do we have the most toxic furniture in the world, we do so in order to meet the requirements of legislation that doesn't even work. This was proved by the department concerned in 2014: evidence still on its website; happy to provide a link if you want to check yourself.

If you're happy sitting and sleeping on furniture that is packed with flame retardants, including those that were banned a few years ago, then fine. But I think the UK public has the right to know about this so they can decide to buy instead, for example, from the EU.

CautiouslyPessimistic · 14/03/2019 22:29

I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, I'm just aware that on these threads presenting theories still under investigation as fact is likely to inflame already heightened anxieties. Most people here are already trying to navigate as many decontextualised risk factors as any individual could possibly be expected to, and usually on a reduced amount of sleep. They trust experts because they have to - it's all we're given to go on. Presenting this kind of thing to them is very likely to stoke anxiety but without people feeling there's much they can about it. I would suggest taking this kind of thing to the authorities, or failing that to the media; not to people on a parenting website.

FlameIngSofa · 15/03/2019 09:52

Thank you for your comments, which I completely sympathise with. However, let me explain what is behind all this. First, I'm not "presenting theories still under investigation" – everything I'm talking about is proven, much of the evidence for which, as said, is in the public domain. Similarly, the same issue – flame retardants in furniture – was raised very publicly in the US with the result that immense pressure from the public resulted in a change to their flammability standard which means that anyone there can now go buy a sofa or a mattress that does not contain flame retardants. The public here can do the same, e.g. write to your MP about it.

Second, this has in fact been taken to the authorities – in multiple ways and forms. However, the authorities are refusing to act. I have evidence that this is at least partly down to corruption; the rest perhaps to the general reluctance of UK civil servants to do anything that might put their pensions at risk.

The flame retardant industry is immensely powerful – the same companies (that operate in the UK) bought officials and bribed medical experts in the US to lie, both to support the fire safety claims of the industry (which are largely bogus) and to lobby for more flame retardants in home products. The US public was alerted by a group working for change, including the Green Science Policy Institute, the Chicago Tribune, US firefighters (who had realised they were suffering far higher cancer rates than normal, almost certainly down to toxic fumes from burning flame retardants), and the governor of California.

Gradually, this kind of reaction is coming together here. However, the danger is greater too. We have higher levels of flame retardants in our homes than the US did and a government department (BEIS) that is unusually (perhaps) incompetent and in the case of some officials there possibly corrupt. Without going into detail there are finally signs that the media will do more than it has been willing to in the past. This is a massive scandal, after all, and the mainstream media is not so keen as it used to be to invite possible law suits by exposing the truth. In the US, at least flame retardants were used to comply with a standard that worked. Here, the scandal is massively greater since BEIS itself proved 5 years ago that ours doesn't even work.

In the meantime, I believe the public needs to know the truth, especially where babies and children are concerned, since the evidence – and there's plenty of it – shows that the young are particularly vulnerable to the effects of flame retardants. By the way, the flame retardant industry does not deny that their chemicals get into our blood and stay there; they just say they aren't doing any harm. A claim that is contradicted by the cycle of them putting a chemical on the market claiming it's safe only for it to be banned some years down the line as being toxic, when it's more neutrally assessed. Not to mention the hundreds of pieces of research that show a very close association, if not a direct link, between these chemicals and a huge range of illnesses.

I appreciate people on this site will be alarmed by all this. But, as said, it's better that they are, then they can act. And the way to act is as I indicated before: buy from the EU where they don't allow flame retardants in furniture; or, if you can afford it, buy UK mattresses and sofas that don't contain these chemicals (but make sure you research/question the company concerned thoroughly because some organic/natural producers do cheat).

Pebblesandblamblam · 18/03/2019 15:06

This thread is now making my already bunged up with cold head hurt!

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FlameIngSofa · 19/03/2019 08:56

And I'm sorry for contributing to that, as well as raising a pretty heavy subject. But, believe me, the country's being kept in the dark about this purely to protect the massive profits of five related industries.

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