Is this safe co-sleeping?

[Mississippilessly]

I am cosleeping because it is the only way DS or I get any sleep. He starts off in his crib but by 3am he is with me.
However, he will not be out of my arms once he is in bed. I can lay down and have him on his back with my arm underneath his neck. I've put a flat pillow to support my arm so it stays still. DS stays on his back and his head is tilted back not forwards. It is supported by my arm and the pillow. No duvet near him.

Is that ok? I cant see anyway if getting sleep otherwise.

I slept with a dressing gown on and blankets up to my waist.

OP, there is no such thing as "safe" co sleeping. Only safer.
In breastfed babies over 3 months, there is no increased risk of SIDS if safe co-sleeping guidelines are followed.

The risks increase when guidelines aren’t followed, such as falling asleep with baby accidentally, if baby is formula fed, if smoke etc.

skunkatanka this is not true at all. Look at the unicef data in SIDS for the UK. All baby sleeping has a SIDS risk but safe cosleeping does not make it any more risky than being in a Moses. Research from some countries suggests safe cosleeping is safer than a baby being in a Moses basket/cot.

@Seline not no blankets, just no duvet. You can get massive cellular type blankets. Layer them up. Wool is good for keeping warm.

Urgh I hate this!
I have a lambswool blanket. Would that be ok for me to use?
I dont know how to get him out of my arms though

Yes, wool is good as it will stop him getting too hot or too cold.
Is it a knitted type with gaps/holes in?
There are two types of risk with covers-one is overheating as young babies struggle to regulate their temperature and the other risk is suffocation if it goes over their face.

To get him out of your arms can you try co-sleeping from the beginning of the night? He may just be more settled and sleep better next to you so not need to be in your arms as he won’t have been ‘away’ from you in his crib. Mine always slept better if were co-sleeping, woke less, went back to sleep easier etc.

Can you latch him on with him under your arm then when he’s a bit settled but still feeding, move your arm away? Maybe try in the day as things like that can be a bit tricky when it’s 3am!

So.sorry to be using you as an info guide!

Can I keep DS in his sleeping bag and wrap a blanket round me? It doesn't have holes in it but its obviously easier to burrito myself into than a duvet!
Right got him to sleep, he is now laying on the flat mattress, will join him once I've gone to the loo.
This is so much for your help.

This is how my 2 year old sleeps and has slept since day 11. You are fine x

I’ve got twins and DS frequently ends up in my bed.

I have my duvet still but I keep in wrapped at waist level. DS is in his sleeping bag with head at boob height. I keep my pillows because there’s no way I could sleep without them. DS is nowhere near them though.

I always find co sleeping terrifying though. I love having snuggles, but it’s always scary!

No problem! You’re welcome Do you mean a grow bag or similar?
I wouldn’t use one if co-sleeping as you will provide a lot of body heat. Unless your room is particularly cold.

I used to have DC in vest, babygrow then small cellular blanket over them. Large cellular blankets over me.
I would personally probably use a wool blanket pushed far down if DC were over 3 months but you need to decide what risks you are happy to take.
It’s much safer than a duvet.

Lots of people wear a warm zip up onesie or fleecy pyjamas.

It's a grobag. Our room gets bloody freezing (I mean like 13 degrees freezing) so I'm not too worried about that.
Right. Going to try to get some sleep. Wish me luck!

I use a cellular blanket and a gro bag but with a lower tog than if she was sleeping on her own. I add another blanket if cold and dress warmly.

Good luck, hope you have a good night x

Skunkatanka that’s simply not true.

There is growing evidence to support the view (long held, by many cultures and individuals) that co-sleeping when done correctly is the safest way for babies to sleep. There are lots of studies out there which can be easily accessed online if you care to read them, but here's just one excerpt from Ball & Russell's 2014 study into the links between SIDS and co-sleeping:

Researchers found that the incidence of co-sleeping among the SIDS infants was significantly higher than for the controls. However when results were broken down to specific co-sleeping environments, it was found that co-sleeping on a sofa, or next to a parent who had drunk more than two units of alcohol carried a very high risk. Co-sleeping next to a smoker was significant for infants under three months, whilst the risk associated with bed-sharing in the absence of these factors was not significant overall, and was in the direction of protection for older infants (over three months).

This study supports what many people have said for a long time, which is that co-sleeping gets a bad rep based on some people not following safe co-sleeping practices. Anecdotally, I've seen two articles in the last few months online regarding tragic baby deaths where the tone of the article was anti co-sleeping, containing several references to the anti co-sleeping NHS guidelines etc and the comments under the articles were all very much warning against sleeping with babies. One case was a father who had fallen asleep with his baby on the sofa and the baby had slipped down between him and the sofa back. The other case was a lady who was using a morphine patch and during the night the patch had detached from her and become stuck to the baby. Instances like this contribute to the negative opinions of the UK general public about co-sleeping. I've said it before on MN, but using these types of cases to warn against co-sleeping is akin to using a story about a drunk driver to warn everyone that driving cars is dangerous and none of us should do it. Co-sleeping is safe, as long as it's done properly.

OP, I have everything crossed that you both manage some sleep! I don't know how old your DC is, but I did find that it got easier as DD got older and the breastfeeding lying down definitely got way easier the bigger she got. Sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do. You are aware of safe co-sleeping guidelines which is a massive part of it (I.e. you're not going to do anything dangerous like stick a duvet on him or whatever). I think you have to weigh the risks of sleeping in a less-than-perfect position against the risks of being in sole charge of a baby when you're on your knees with exhaustion because you've not slept. Sleep is important. Obviously you minimise the risks as much as you possibly can (which you are doing) but none of us are perfect. We just get through as best we can!

I slept like that but minus the pillow since day 1 with my DD. I would persevere with attempting to feed lying down, unless your baby has refux, as it well worth it imo.

I’m a massive cosleeping fan but less of a fan of the lost of things I absolutely must do/don’t do or I’ll definitely kill my baby. Now clearly I’m not suggesting you ignore all the guidelines but you need to work out what works best for you. And it will change over time. See in summer I was fine all uncovered and that, but now it’s absolutely Baltic in our bedroom so I have adjusted things as so: I have a duvet (yes I know- baby murdering devices!) because it’s FREEZING and I don’t own enough blankets to keep me warm. The key with this is that my husband has his own duvet as well so that we can wrap up around ourselves but not over baby. She has a grobag on- again, freezing. She mostly sleeps on her back but she likes sleeping on her side really (has done since she could get herself rolled over) and prefers to lie on her side to feed rather than her back. We did however go through a stage not that long ago when she would only sleep laid on my chest. She wasn’t small either so that was fun!! Honestly if it works it works. A far greater SIDS risk than sleeping on your arm or having a duvet/pillow near them is having a parent who is so tired she could fall asleep on a rollercoaster!

I would feed lying down but then when DS unlatched I wasn't comfortable like that and I would shuffle down so our faces were level, lie on my side towards him and curl my arm under his bottom. That way I could feel him if he moved and it was much more comfortable to me. Had covers up to my waist, him in a sleeping bag in winter and just a vest in summer and no pillow.

Can you keep your heating on? My kids would definitely wake up if the temperature dropped to 13 degrees, my 2yo still comes in our bed if her bedroom is cold in the night. That might be the problem!

Oh for heavens sake use a pillow. Who can sleep without a pillow? That's just bonkers. Go for a firmer one. Maybe a bedside cot and a sleepyhead? You might be able to trick him into thinking the sleepyhead is you. Honesty it gets better. You're doing great. They really are hard to kill!

I think you can have a pillow as long as pillow away from your baby, and also have a duvet covering you, but not too high up & not on your baby. I used a pillow and still had duvet over me. I then got a side car cot to get more space and ensure safety but I have to admit it was more about the space.

To be honest if you are near your baby, on a bad and responding to him quickly in the night he's gonna be safe. Co sleeping is normal and natural around the world.

It doesn't sound like an ideal position for your comfort or his in the medium term, and even a flat pillow is not good for safety from what I've read.

How old is he OP? I'm wondering if very tiny still things change fast. Feeding lying down is easier when they're a bit bigger too.

Could you try letting him drop off with a hand cupped under his head instead then sneak it out once he's settled? I'd probably try shifting with a hand on his front too at first so he knows you're still there if he does stir. Or how about having a cellular blanket between your arm and his neck? Again easier to smuggle yourself out.

I use a pillow but have my arm stretched out above DD head to create a barrier between her and the pillow. I also have a duvet up to my waist but wrap it under my legs so it can’t ride up. It works fine.

@CoastalLife - the quote you have provided comes from the statement from UNICEF. It represents their not entirely factual summary of the 2014 study by Blair, P. S. et al. UNICEF are pro cosleeping and, unfortunately, they tend to misrepresent or provide incomplete information to support their views.

There are several problems with the underlying study:

1. It is based on old information that goes back as far as 1993-1996. Changes to infant sleeping practices post "back to sleep" campaign led to significant reduction of SIDS risk in the control group (non bedsharing infants).
2. The control group was smaller than in other studies (1,386 babies).
3. The sample of "bed-sharing infants in the absence of sofa-sharing, alcohol consumption and smoking" was too small to draw any meaningful conclusions (24 SIDS cases, 131 control group).

The most comprehensive research on bedsharing available so far is in fact Carpenter 2013. UNICEF consciously chooses to ignore it but this particular study (1) is based on the latest data, (2) covers 1472 SIDS cases and 4679 control and (3) is used as the basis for most of the modern SIDS guidelines. Carpenter's research demonstrates than even in the absence of hazardous conditions cosleeping still appears riskier than putting baby in a separate cot in the room with parents.

Winter It's been a long while now since I took the decision to co-sleep but I did so after an awful lot of reading on the subject. That study was literally from the first link I pulled off Google. Obviously I'm not going to repeat my hours and hours of research for the sake of a thread on Mumsnet, but I was satisfied from my reading on the subject that I was taking a very safe decision for my baby. In my opinion, the safest decision. Obviously not all of the research is in agreement, and parents will all make the decision that they feel is best for their family. No judgement from me whatsoever. I do however feel that the decision to co-sleep is often judged without any knowledge of the practice other than the fact that it's not our cultural norm in the UK, hence my probably quite defensive post earlier.

I think that the practice of co sleeping is often undertaken without due care and that to actually achieve safer co sleeping requires measures that most parents simply aren't prepared to do. Up thread there are posters saying "for goodness sake use a pillow" and "they're really hard to kill". I mean, seriously? The recognised advice on SIDS is for the baby to be at your side in a crib or Moses basket, foot to foot on their back and with tightly fitted blankets. That is the advice. Anything less is a compromise made in the interest of parents getting a good sleep. To be honest, I was willing to sacrifice sleep for a while.