Any ideas welcome for 11 year old

[trio3]

Hi
I have been very lucky with my 3 children when it comes to sleep, until recently! My 11 year old,middle child, has become a nightmare! Almost a toddler! Keeping himself awake, needing everything at bedtime, disturbing his siblings,rudeness,needy, the list goes on! I have always put mine to bed with a story/chat loss and cuddle then off to sleep. Son in question now wants his phone, music, tickle his back, some to sit with him, mattress not comfy,too hot,too much in the room,can't see put the door again, the list goes on. This behaviour can go on for hours! It can disturb the others, he shares currently with his older brother ( who has special needs) this does not help his behaviour. I guess it all started when I split with his dad, coming up for 4 years ago, but it has affected different aspects of his life and now it appears his sleep! I try to be understanding, accommodating, but it is becoming less and less easy to do so! Some nights it will be midnight before he is asleep, and will often want to get in my bed, which occasionally I will allow but don't want it to become anothwr thing to have to break him out of! I have tried ignoring him, doing everything he wants, bribing him, stickers,money, feels
Like everything but nothing works!!!
We have been offered a new house, where he will have his own room, but the date keeps changing which I am sure is affecting him (everything is packed, mattresses on the floor etc) but he is old enough to understand. It won't be long before it affects his education. I have tried most things and willing to try anything! All ideas welcome if there are any!
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance

Was he having sleep problems before everything got packed up ready to move?

Yes he was!

Bumping for you.

But also is he tired when he goes to bed? My DD is like this if she goes to bed too early. Then can't settle until way after her normal bedtime. Might need to start where he's at?

Google "sleep hygiene" for some basic info

Suggest minimising the amount of time spent in his bed but not asleep & have wind down routine before bed but perhaps in another room. Eg listen to a story/podcast (no screen)

Can he, for example, wind down/chill out on your bed so as not to disturb brother? Then go to his bed when tired That might also help if there's any separation anxiety, but you should go downstairs after settling him.

Thanks for bumping!

He is normally tired,visibly so! I sometimes think he is overtired so try to start the routine earlier but am met with defiance and arguing about the time! Even when I explain why I have started it earlier.

I have done the sleep hygiene research and try as far as possible to follow.

I think that I am just going to have to be tough and put up with whatever comes my way! For example no phone at all after 8pm, ignore , and not to give in for the sake of some sleep for everyone! Perhaps half term will be a good time to start as then no worries about the other children being too tired for school, we will also be in the new house by then. I will also wake him in the mornings to make sure that he is tired by bedtime.

Thanks

Oh also, I have tried him in my bed to begin with, but he falls asleep and I cannot physically move him! If I wake him it can often start the whole process again. Maybe his mattress in my room until we move?

Yep tricky. I can get my dd to move from mine half asleep but yours is probably zonked out because he's a bit sleep deprived.

If the mattresses are on the floor anyway now could put it temporarily in your room for a bit to try to get his body clock routine better before the move

Unless you think he will get too used to sleeping in your room

Hi
I am on my own so have no one to move him! And yes he is too fast asleep to move half asleep! We are trialling the mattress in my room, usual routine before but starting earlier and then I am going to read to him and sit with him until nearly asleep. I am concerned He may get used to it but if only till we move then the change will be good and all st once. I am taking him shopping alone to pick out everything for his new room and set it all up with him so hopefully he feels more comfortable. His brother will be in the next room when we move, which always helps as he likes to know someone is close and awake! He is also a big worrier, necessary or not, for example this evening he is worried someone is going to jump over the bannister and get him without me knowing! We are talking through these each time they come up and 'throwing' them away! I have everything crossed!
I do feel slightly stupid and to blame that at 11 I am unable to get him to sleep! I think this has mainly come from when his dad was around, and my children were expected to be seen and not heard, so what they are told without question or explaination, and not allowed to have feelings! Now it seems my son is doing it all at once.he has always been a sensitive soul!

This might seem ridiculous. Dd struggled to sleep. She has a echo dot in her room. I use it for seaside sounds. It improved her sleep instantly

That doesn't sound ridiculous, however I have tried meditation cds/ in you tube which would work if he let them! It's just becoming a battle and who will give in first! If I say no to watching the satisfying videos before bed, it is then my fault he can't sleep, if I allow them he ends up watching random things and I then get cross because he is not sleeping......
am trying the mattress in my room starting tonight, so far he is still not asleep! Who knows!