Oh the temper and the constant shouting!!!

[fruityb]

My son is 2 years and 4 months and used to go to bed like a dream. I’ve posted before about all this changing since two. It got better for a while but just lately it’s got a whole lot worse. He now refuses to walk upstairs and has to be carried up resulting in a temper before we even get there. He sometimes will walk up but more often he’ll just lay down on a step and refuse. He’s currently standing on the landing screaming daddy over and over again in a voice I don’t actually recognise as his. He will do this as long as it takes for one of us to break. It’s sheer complete and utter temper.

Before anyone says it we have pretty much dropped the nap. However he was knackered at bedtime so went up a little earlier than normal as he was nigh on dropping off downstairs. He’s had a busy day today and was fine and dandy playing with his new stuff. Bedtime just unleashes a child I can only describe as an absolute shit!!

He’s got everything he needs up there - he’s got his teds and his dummies and his bedroom is warm. This is nothing but complete and utter kicking off and screaming. My husband is very firm and tells him to get into bed but he won’t. The rapid return just doesn’t work and he’ll keep getting out and getting out and screaming.

I can’t cope with the screaming and have lost my temper with him before when he just refused to go to bed. I have to leave my husband to sort it.

What the hell can I do?? I absolutely refuse to sit in his room while he goes to sleep and so does my husband - we cannot do that and will not do that. We havedone that and I was in there for an hour and a half before his lordship decided to go to sleep!!

Is this his age?? Is this a phase?? I can’t even blame lack of Christmas routine as he was like this before!! It’s horrible and I actually feel sick when bedtime rolls round as he becomes absolutely awful. He’s such a good boy all day and so polite and smart but bedtime makes him an utter fucking nightmare and I don’t know what to do!!

I can’t understand why people can’t make time for their children at nighttime im sorry but he is a small child and is wanting connection at bedtime. It is beyond stressful at times especially if it takes a long time but he just wants his mum or dad to comfort him, his brain isn’t fully developed to go to sleep on his own all the time. He will get there but in the meantime it is literally a parents job 24/7 not 7am-7pm.

He gets all my time - I don’t see what’s wrong with wanting a small amount to myself!! I am there in his room while he goes to sleep - I was also there at half midnight when he came into our bed and sat there like the ghost of Christmas yet to come pointing at the door and refusing to lay down. He wanted to go in the spare bedroom. He slept in three beds last night.

I am exhausted and needing some advice. Telling me parenting is 24/7 is not necessary.

I personally wouldn't have him downstairs with you at the end of the day for his wind down routine. Downstairs is fun, downstairs is for being up with mum and dad and playing.

He sounds overtired. DS3 is about the same age, and our nights improved a lot when we started putting him down 30 mins earlier, as once he's tired he goes all Jekyll and Hyde!

I'd say:
Quick bath and pyjamas straight after dinner, while he's happy and not too tired yet
Then go up (agree with pp about downstairs being for playing)
Let him choose some books - or a puzzle can be good for calming down
Do you use a groclock? That can help signpost the night
Then snuggles in bed, and a calming routine goodnight
Then once you go, have you ever tried audiobooks or quiet music? When I have to go down to the older DCs I have a selection of audiobooks on my tablet and he is allowed to choose one to play on a 15 min timer - there are lots of good Julia Donaldson ones on Amazon or tons on eBay on cd. He knows that if I'm in the room it's silent with no audiobook, that nronally means he's the one to kick me out

If they get up then a big hug and back to bed, I stay in the room for 2-3 mins silently then go. Stops the power struggle of rapid return, but also not 'fun'. Even when jetlagged from long haul we don't allow them to be downstairs or watching TV - they can look at books quietly or listen to audiobooks in the dark. Also don't allow more food or milk, it mucks up their internal clock

Another thing my sister did was to make a photo book of each stage of the night routine and read it through with her child, to make expectations very clear and be able to sort of tick off bits as she went along. We were too tired lazy for this but worked well for her!

That sounds like a plan. We’ve started stories downstairs with a blanket, which he now goes and gets, and then we have the last story upstairs. He’s got really good again at going upstairs without a battle and gets into his bed fine for his story. It’s just the incessant mucking about afterwards!

We’ll get there - sorry I just need to vent sometimes and it’s hard! I am fully aware he needs me but when we have honestly been able to put him to bed at 7 since he was 9 months old it’s a bit of a shock to the system to get fight back.

We do have a groclock and I’m going to start that proper too.

Actually if he's really well behaved for the whole evening routine and only tricky after going to bed, I'd be less inclined to say overtired. It's probably a separation and power thing. Ignore the pps, there's always someone along to say it's a 24 hour job - which is true to a point, but doesn't mean you need to turn into a martyr sitting at a bedside for over an hour with him not sleeping and you not happy. Good luck!

Definitely a separation thing I think - he’s never been a particularly clingy kid but he even starts complaining if I want to go for a wee at the moment!!

Sigh - just going to have to ride this one out just like the others! Tomorrow night we’re going try leaving him a bit - it’s easier on a weekend as we don’t have to be up or anything and he does tend to sleep in (with us obviously!)

Just wanted to post an update - mainly to distract myself from the absolute chaos that is currently upstairs!!

So I started sitting in with ds till he went to sleep - this could take five minutes or it could take an hour. He has started to be a bugger though - talking to me or seeing it as a game to climb out of bed or not lay down. He spent a week getting in our bed at 1am but this seems to have stopped this week.

I have been reading him stories in bed which he liked and would ask for - he’d also take some up. However it’s now hitting a point where I’d read the story and he’d started waving his ted at me - last night he hit me in the face with it. Tonight he would not lay down or even sit in his bed - instead he was getting his feet out and then kicked me in the face. Messing about but not settling. I kept stopping the story and said I would go if he carried on. He had three warnings and after I finally finished the story I told him to lay down as it was time for sleep. He wouldn’t. Any attempts to lay him down resulted in giggles and it just wasn’t happening so I left the room. My husband took over. I can hear my son screaming hysterically for me - he’d be doing the same for his dad if this was the other way round - and bedtime has once again become a battlefield.

This is happening nightly - one of us ends up stuck in there till he sleeps or he starts cocking about and being difficult: either way we cannot leave or world war three breaks out. He is currently going utterly mental. I went upstairs and he didn’t want me, didn’t cuddle me, didn’t want anything other than to stand there screaming in my face. It won’t stop. I’m stressed to the eyeballs. I wish I could record the noise he is currently making at my husband (who is in the room with him) and show you what is happening when he does this.

We don’t have tantrum mainly - we just end up stuck in there for up to an hour or so till he gives in. Tonight it’s like he’s going to vomit. There are no tears or slobber or anything - it’s just guttural roaring. I just want to cry - I can’t cope with this anymore. I’m a teacher and I am getting fuckall done at night and therefore I’m getting behind. I just don’t know what to do.

It sounds really difficult but it sounds like your kid just hasn’t wound down. I think you need to find some ways to chill him out more whether it’s essential oils in the bath, massage, soothing music. I always think when people say ‘go to sleep’ it’s quite impossible as sleep isn’t something we can control it just happens. Have you heard of The Rabbit Who Wants to Fall Asleep? Have a google.

I think he’s overtired. My. 2.5yo ds goes through phases of being so difficult to get to nap but he’s exhausted and when I wake him( I limit to an hour otherwise he won’t sleep) it takes a while for him to fully wake up.
We do bath at 6.30, then stories, then I sit next to him while he falls asleep- sometimes a few minutes, sometimes an hour- I think it changes with developmental phases as it seems to coincide with him trying out something new.
I wouldn’t bring him back downstairs as he’d think it’s time to play again.
But I think maybe your ds needs a nap still otherwise he’s too overtired by bedtime and can’t wind down properly. I thought kids needed a nap til 3ish anyway?

We didn't bring them down again after bath/pyjamas.

We did tea, bath, (bottle,) story in bed.

Also I just read your last update.
I don’t think the threats of leaving if he doesn’t do what you want help. And swapping with your husband will just make him more unsettled and rejected. He’s pushing boundaries but needs you. You’re making the idea of falling asleep by himself a punishment.

Sort threads moved on. I had one that was up 9x a night. Went on for years to be fair. Preschool was a blessing in terms of exhaustion.

I used to let mine spend a good long time in the bath as this was relaxing playing and definitely helped. This was the only really flexible part of the routine.

Story etc then she had audiobooks that played all night in a desperate attempt to keep her in bed. It kind or worked. They played on an iPod with a small speaker v v quietly so she wouldn't be able to hear if she fidgeted. They helped and her vocab was amazing, although a bit 1950s due to an overdose of Enid Blyton!

I had a long day yesterday - he was a mare!! He went straight to sleep at about 8:45 when I took him back up. He came down, he hasn’t for ages, because he was hysterical and wouldn’t calm down. I was kicked in the face and wasn’t really in any mood!

I’ll give audiobooks a go. He was fine this morning so hopefully tonight will go better. I was in tears for about an hour last night - husband was supportive and we just need to soldier on!! He went up to bed at seven having had a bath. I usually pack his toys up at 6:15 and we read and just do things like drawing on his magna doodle or puzzles. The tv is off.

What are you actually doing to wind him down though?

Do you think you could afford a sleep consultant? It just sounds like you've tried a lot of things and there's something not clicking, maybe an outside perspective could help.

The advice on here is great but it's based on what works for other people - you could do exactly the same as all of these and it might not work because no one else has your child.

Mine has a basic routine of upstairs at half six, sometimes bath sometimes not, teeth, three stories of her choice and into bed. She's straight asleep no fuss. You've done that and it hasn't worked, because your ds needs something different to my dd. You're not doing anything wrong.

It might just be a phase, without wanting to upset you it might be that just nothing will work for a while til this phase passes.

Wind down is toys away, pyjamas on and then we sit and read some books. Tv off and it’s calm time: he picks a new book to take upstairs but it’s always Where’s my Cow when we get there! To be fair when he gets home from CM he’s pretty chilled and well watch some tv and play a bit but he doesn’t get loads out.

Tonight we took him up a bit later, he said night night to daddy and we went up, tucked in and read where’s my cow. Then lights off and I sit with him with my hand in his bed so he can check in there and then he goes to sleep. Tonight it was 20 minutes so we’re good.

It’s me he wants so I just have to stay for now. It won’t be forever... he has stayed in bed all night without coming in ours all week so that’s a bonus!’