15 week old - should I be having an evening?

[FedUpEffedOff]

God, I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. Bedtime routine starts 7-7.30pm with bath, book and feed (EBF). He'll fall asleep but wake within 30 mins - regardless of whether we leave him lying next to me on bed or move him into his crib. He'll wake up and grizzle until maybe 11pm. Tried a dummy, it just falls out his mouth after a few seconds (I've tried three different makes so far). My evening therefore ends when his routine starts as I can't get back downstairs. Husband doesn't get home from work until 6.30pm so we basically have no time together. I feel like I'm going mad. Am I expecting too much? I hate the evenings now. I dread them.

It was later than that for three out of four for mine, then all slept for the night from three months but now we have two that wake up during the night (everyone always says wow 3 months but years later we're up trying to put them back to bed!) Take care op, it is tough but you'll get there

Go downstairs. Pop baby in Moses basket. They often still want to evening clusterfeed at that age. Go with what actually works for the baby then gently shape it from there but know it all goes tits up multiple times over because of colds/developmental milestones/regressions etc etc.

I agree with Doodleygirl.
Do whatever suits your baby and your family. Babies vary and books pander to our fears and egos. The end point is that children eventually sort it out . I really wouldn't be upstairs all evening alone with a grizzling infant after being on my own with them all day. Who is it benefitting? ( particularly as safety guidelines would suggest that babies should be in the same room as parents 24 hours a day until they are six months old... I understand that this isn't the law but it is a point ) .

It depends on the baby. DC1 would be down with us at that age and not go sleep until 9.30/10pm, then wake around 9am for the day (plus waking during nights for feeds). DC2 is currently 11 weeks and goes to sleep in his cot by 8pm (usually earlier) and wakes for day by 7.30am. Ive found with DC2, keeping him up longer just makes him more irritable and hard to put down however I would never have managed to get my eldest down early.

Books can give a rough guide for a possible routine but don't take them as something you must be following, some babies fit in to the routine much easier than others. Some thrive on routine and others prefer to just fall asleep when tired.

All sleep should be with you until 6 months anyway - that’s SIDS advice. My 17 week old just falls asleep on me in the evening so I watch tv with DH then take her up to bed when I’m ready to go.

Thank you all. It's cathartic just reading everyone else's experiences. And I can see how daft I sound when reading this in the light of day and not when I'm feeling bleak in the evening. He is such a good little boy and I think I might be being selfish. I've never known emotions like this motherhood malarkey Perhaps it's the time of year too - everyone talking about enjoying a drink in the evening in front of the telly (I've not drunk a drop since he was born) and yet I'm in bed by 7pm. I'm going to try and ignore the books.

I kept mine downstairs at that age as others say. Just breastfed on demand, cuddled or put them in the carrycot to sleep. Two were good sleepers who fell into a routine by 5 or 6 months, one a terribe sleeper who couldn't fall asleep on his own or stay asleep til he was 2.5, but as I treated them all the same I tend to think the routine was irrelevant. The terribe sleeper actually had the most routine as he had to fit around 3 and 5 year old siblings who were by then in a family dinner/ quiet play and chat in the living room/ bath/ story/ bed routine which he was included in aside from the solid food, but it certainly didn't help!

I find routines helpful from about 5 or 6 months but a hindrance before that.

poor you, sitting down to dinner then hearing the baby's cry must be a real moment of dread for you

I would change things up a tiny bit. Put him to bed by 7 no matter what rather than looking for signs of tiredness. (An unchanging definite bedtime helps him know what to expect I think.)

Lay him down confidently after his feed. And then, mentally, go off duty. I really think DH should come home and be on duty with some expressed breast milk or lovely organic formula!

15 weeks is just the right time to make sure your baby can take a bottle (it might get too late otherwise). And 15 weeks is right about the time my mental health dropped like a stone from sleep deprivation so if you feel a bit insane from 24/7 on duty, I think a nice 7-10pm handover to DH would be very helpful.

Just make sure you tell him what you need then let him get on with it and don't question his methods.

Forgot to add... you don't have the light on when he is grizzling after 7 do you? He should have darkness from bedtime on xxxx

Haha don't you hate it when people say "lay [baby] down confidently"... I just mean, you are not doing anything wrong to hope for him to sleep! so don't bash yourself up!

Lovely organic formula ladypartridge ? A nice 7-10pm handover? Have you popped out of a n old Joyce Grenthall sketch?

Formula is all pretty much identical due to very strict laws surrounding it - it's all equally lovely or not lovely, and the strict rules mean it's an area where the organic label is merely decorative. The OP is breastfeeding and shouldn't feel pressured to get her baby to take a bottle of formula when she'd get her evenings with her DH back by just keeping their tiny baby with them downstairs! Mentally switching off having left your 15 week old upstairs alone is both impossible and terribe advice!

Sounds normal, however you being "on edge" as you put it probably isn't helping matters. Can your dh do the bath and story bit so you can relax a bit before the bedtime feed?

Had to google Joyce Grenthall @blueskiesandforests. Maybe I have popped out of one of her sketches? In fact I did, and I a 2 dimensional comedy character appeared here on Mumsnet solely for the purposes of helping you channel your crossness today. You're so welcome!

My advice is that OP should do anything in the world that takes the pressure off herself.

Why would you advise a breastfeeding mother to formula feed and put a 3 month old to sleep alone upstairs when both things increase SIDS risk?

Depends so much on you baby. Ds1 and new ds4 have been much more demanding while my ds2 and 3 were practically self settling at that age.

Sounds like you're doing a good job, keep persisting and things do improve

It won't last forever, it does get easier. I think at about 4/5 months I was putting baby to bed about 9.30 then having to feed multiple times in the night. I would go to bed at about 11.30 and leave in cot in bedroom alone

At 1 year, I still don't have 'an evening' as baby doesn't go to bed til 9.30 as he gets up at 9. But, I have my evenings back and some of the day as he amuses himself much more now and he has a big pen that he loves to play in.

You will one day look back with rose tinted spectacles remembering all those evening cuddles and feeds with fondness and you will forget the sleeo deprivation.

The reason books are generally unhelpful is beautifuoillustrated by the above posts. Some babies settle easily and some don't. Certainly your baby would be unusual if they were fully settled at this point. I have three DC all ebf; very different from each other. DC1 was a brilliant feeder from the off , fed very quickly four hourly from day one;they kept up the 4 hourly routine until they were well established at school. I had stopped feeding at about a year but they would pad across the landing and clamber into bed with me for years. DC2 was very difficult to establish at the breastfed every 90 minutes for 3 months and then upped it to 2-3 hourly; slept through the night from6 months.DC3 fed very well but was impatient and shouty. Lots of cluster feeding and night time feeds until a year and feeding frequently ie multiple times a night until over 2. Breast fed until 4 and waking in night until about 11. All have the same parents and the same ' routine ' I really think books are usually a bit of a con on this subject .