6 month old with a sleep issue / problem

[Peaches2018]

Hi all
I'm completely stuck and would love some advice like I always get here on Mumsnet (literally saves my sanity lol)
My DS of 6 months old seems lately to keep his naps during the day short (30 to 60 mins.) and takes a long time to fall asleep at night.

The boy has lots of energy and he's often on his playmat and busy with toys which helps. But his naps seem to be very short and his falling and staying asleep at night is now a nightmare with yesterday being the worst night so far. He fell asleep eventually at 23pm while I either had to hold him, feed him or play baby shark to calm him down
He's rubbing his eyes, yawning a lot and a bit irritated so he gives lots of sleep cues and I put him to bed as soon as I notice them. Have tried and successfully did PU/PD method for a while but all seems gone now.
He also recently discovered he can roll onto his tummy which he does countless of times before he (finally) falls asleep which results in me walking up and down the stairs a dozen times or like yesterday sitting on the landing

Anyone what can I do, what can I improve? Any tips or anything to help us? I tried to put something next to him so he can't turn but he sees that as "new" toys and I find it dangerous now to put something in his cot bed.
I'm fully fuelled by coffee today but can't keep up with that every day because it causes me to sleep too late and I've got no time to have a little bit of rest in the evening for me to do things in the house or to get into my bed routine
Thanks

Bump

Hang in there, sounds like he's keen to practice his new moves and hopefully will settle back down in a few nights. I'd continue usual routine and if possible try and get longer naps in the day, maybe a long buggy ride if he will sleep in there? It sounds like he could be overtired

Try not to over stimulate too, baby shark might get his brain going. Sometimes if baby seems wide awake but rubbing eyes they are actually usually over tired

@Beansprout30 he's very very keen to do all sorts of things, I've seen him trying to pull up his knees as well when he's on his tummy and trying to get to toys further in front of him.
Rubbing eyes is actually a sign of over tired? I thought it was that they were getting tired

Earlier bedtime - he's overtired if he's yawning and rubbing his eyes. Do you have a good bedtime routine for him so he knows that bedtime is coming? Doesn't work immediately but pays dividends in the long run - my 10 m/o knows exactly what order the steps come in and loves her bed because of it. Don't stimulate him once he's in his cot - no talking, no toys, no feeding unless you know he's hungry and definitely no baby shark! That's all counterproductive for him and for you.

Personally if he can roll onto his tummy I'd leave him to sleep that way but I understand some people don't like to until they can reliably roll back. I'd practice his tummy to back rolling during the day so you can start leaving him rather than having to disturb him and wake him up.

Also they do practice their skills as they're falling asleep so if he's getting up on his knees etc leave him to it unless he's crying of course.

@peachgreen A set bedtime routine I don't have fully. He knows cuddles, clean nappy, sleeping bag and a story but because of a too dry skin there's no bath and because of tummy problems before with his formula he's actually off straight in bed.
Baby shark I used in the evening when I couldn't calm him down anymore while talking after a whole evening of him not settling it was the exception since I like to keep it calm and not too bright in the evening.
I actually do want to wait until he can turn himself back before I let him sleep on his tummy because now he gets annoyed if he stays too long on his tummy.
I think it might be a better idea to go back to the awake for 1.5 or 2 hours and then back to bed and see how that works during the day for him

That sounds like a good bedtime routine, I don't think it always has to include a bath - he's clearly getting good sleep cues from everything else you're doing.

I reckon once he's rolling things will settle a bit as he'll be able to get himself comfy. Just make sure you're giving him the chance to self-settle (so don't run in as soon as he makes a noise, he might just be grumbling while he goes back over).

@peachgreen Well today started off well, he had a first afternoon nap of 1 hour. Awake for 2 hours, saw tired signs just when I was about to bring him up and he then slept for 45 minutes. No way I was able to get him to sleep afterwards.
He had his routine and was (quite tired) back in bed at 17 asleep quarter past. And then he started waking up again every 45 minutes
First crying loudly for a bottle, then a huge messy nappy and now he's asleep since 30 minutes!! I'm just actually finishing my dinner and feeling horrible for not being able to settle him or to get him back to sleep

You're not horrible at all, sleep is so tough! Sounds like he's waking every sleep cycle for some reason. It could be discomfort of some kind - not enough to keep him from falling asleep to start with but enough to wake him fully after a sleep cycle. Is he warm enough / too warm? Could it be teeth - especially given he had the dirty nappy? Is the room dark enough? Have you tried white noise? Is he hungry? Have you started on solids which could be giving him a sore tummy (which passes)? How does he initially fall asleep? Does he need rocked / shushed etc? Or you to be in the room? Whatever he needs to initially fall asleep he'll need every sleep cycle.

Also he's maybe ready to drop his afternoon nap - at 6 months my daughter went down to 2 naps, one 2 hours after waking, then a longer one 3 hours later, and then bedtime 4 hours after that.

Honestly I thought the 4 month sleep regression was hard but this isn't fun either.
He isn't teething, comfy in his sleeping bag and in a totally dark room apart from the infra red light from the cam (and yes he knows where it is and how to get attention from us)
He was getting weaned (which went well sleeping got better too) but got a major cold, got better and he's now not too interested in foods anymore. He mostly falls asleep with his dummy and I'm constantly up & down the stairs to give that but that doesn't work. He seems very happy/ awake to see me until you wait a minute or two and you see how tired he is and rubbing his eyes.
It seems almost that if he wakes up now he'll keep on fighting sleep and instead rolling on his tummy and trying to get his knees up

I forgot I tried some gentle music / white noise but made no difference at all. I did the PU/PD method for a while and it worked but he's getting a bit too heavy to lift up a lot for me

Is he actually crying when he wakes up?

No not directly. He does when he turns on his tummy (which he does every time he wakes up) and he's there too long or when he can't find his dummy. If he is crying he's often hungry and he gets his bottle which he empties quite quickly.
If I don't come upstairs after whining for a bit he does start crying hence me walking up & down constantly to prevent him waking up too much but with no success.

I think that's a big part of the problem. You're not letting him learn to resettle himself and you're waking him up fully when he might actually drop off. My daughter wakes up and grumbles sometimes but if I go in there it wakes her up properly (making her overtired and upset) whereas if I just leave her be she usually sorts it out herself and goes back to sleep.

I would get back on the solids because he sounds hungry if he's draining a bottle during the night (totally normal for them to be a bit reluctant at first, just keep trying and don't make a big deal of it) leave him unless he actually starts properly crying and work on helping him learn to turn from his tummy to his back during the day so he can roll over when he wants to. I also attached my daughter's dummy to her sleeping bag with a very short, non-choking hazard clip and she soon learned to find it herself after doing the same thing during the day for a bit (I then stopped attaching it during the day).

Thanks very much I wasn't too sure either if I was helping him give his dummy back every time and walking in but I'll give it longer and see how it goes the coming few days.
I'll be making more fruit and veggies mash then since he can't have products with milk and bread hasn't been going well either.
Yes I was very surprised today: 5 oz in less than 5 or 6 minutes and he had 6 oz 1.5 hours before that!! Growth spurt perhaps??
I really hope to teach him to not have the dummy but I guess we need it a bit longer until he settles himself properly and I'll wait a few minutes before going in see how that works.

Good luck! Just remember that he'll soon let you know if he needs you and otherwise just leave him be. Hope it all settles down.

Sounds like you might be putting him to bed too early? If you tried at 17:00, and he did 45 mins then awake til after 22:00, he treated that 17:00 bedtime, as a nap, ie, daytime sleep.

I would try for two naps in the day, and pick a bedtime that works with the timings of those naps. I think I was putting my daughter down between 7 and 8pm at that age

Thank you @MammaSchwifty today he had afternoon naps (one early and one later but shorter) but nope my lil man is up again!!
He was asleep and turned onto his side with a bit too much force and landed on his tummy. He's up and crying so I calmed him down a couple of times and he's in bed now blabbering away / whining a bit.
He was definitely tired when I put him down after 6 today and I think if I waited longer he was over tired by that point.
I'm trying to wait a minute or 2 and leave in a minute or 2 before I walk into his room but it's no help at all.
He's well fed, had a good dinner and looked quite tired (I can hear him yawn now)

Any ideas anyone?

I'm not sure if I mentioned it but my DS has a lot of energy at even after 10 minutes of sleep or so it seems we're hoping to find a spare part for the jumperoo soon so that he can get rid of some extra energy he might have. Also I hope he's crawling soon since he's trying to practice that too the lil busy bee

Bump

I recall having a tough time around this age. My boy is a crap sleeper but the drawn out bedtimes really did me in. We had no option but to pick up and soothe as he would absolutely lose his rag if left in cot. Things that did help:

Focusing on naps. At the first sign of tired I pounced, and do whatever it took to get him to sleep (in the day this was going out in buggy). I used some of the suggestions in the book the no cry sleep solution. I realised that nap to close to bedtime was fatal so focused on that.

Bedtime routine - we got a sequence established that did help cut down the messing about at bedtime.

But tbh, sometimes I just gave up and took him downstairs with me to try again on a half hour. I found it so frustrating to be trying to settle for hours. Also if he’s working on crawling I found that definitely affected sleep. As does coming down with something, teeth, tummy... everything and anything. For perspective, I am well jealous that he can be in the cot at that age just whimpering. My boy would have gone absolutely nuclear. So you’re ahead of where we were at!

Thank you very much @reetgood I think it's a bit of a growth spurt too but with previous ones my DS just slept like a log
He's had 2 shorter naps today but I'm hoping he'll last a bit longer now in the evening so we can do more of his bedtime routine. I've heard more about the no cry sleep solution book, is it a good one? I've done the PU/PD method and that worked for a while until he got sick And I SO agree that it can be anything that throws them off their sleep or routine!! He's fine btw in the house or out in the pram to nap BUT if we're at family or friends he's going the full 1000% on using his voice I think it's because there's too many people who want to help / soothe or cuddle him to help.
Thanks again