Little Ones program

[CasDk]

Hi all, this is my first time using Mumsnet so sorry if this has already been discussed! Can anyone recommend the Little Ones 0-3 program? It's quite pricey so want to make sure it's worth it. Thanks in advance for any advice!

There was a thread about this not long ago here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/3397497-Little-one-sleep-program

A couple of us weren’t particularly impressed

Thank you for that! I had a feeling that would be the case x

One of my friends recently purchased the 0-3 month programme and was struggling so asked me for advice with it. It is good if you want to get into a routine or have older children and want to synchronise their sleep times BUT you need to either have an easy baby with sleep or know a bit about sleep already for it to work.

As per the other thread, it is a series of routines which all centre around baby not being under or overtired when putting them to sleep. Focus is not on sleep training but getting baby to sleep at the right time. Saying that, the settling technique they suggested is the one I already use and works effectively. I wouldn't have succeeded with it with my eldest as I interpreted the wriggling in the swaddle as her hating it rather than realising I was swaddling wrong (this is what I mean about having some knowledge about sleep).

A poster on the other thread said it was Gina Ford - the timings in GF's routines are universally used by most sleep consultants and authors because they work with the age appropriate biological wake times. Where consultants and Little Ones differ is that they allow more flexibility with them to tailor them to your life whereas I felt GF's book was very regimental

As I haven't bought the programme myself, I can't comment on the quality of advice on their app.

(Personally, I don't think MN is always the best place for sleep advice as majority think co-sleeping is the answer to all problems without acknowledging that it isn't for everyone (one of my DC co-sleeps well and works great for us, the other hated it and no-one got any sleep) and anyone who mentions sleep training is accused of not caring for their child or putting their needs before their baby by multiple posters. There is no consideration for mother's mental health or situation - just that you should put up with sleep deprivation because you're a parent and that is not the case. )

Riddles - I agree that if you’ve got a relatively easy sleeper than the little ones approach would work well and be helpful guidance on map timings.

I don’t think it’s a flexible approach though, and to me seems completely unrealistic for a second child. The emphasis is on feed times and putting down for naps at exactly the right time. I.e. within a 5 minute window. I can’t guarantee I can do anything within a 5 minute window. As invariably the baby will be sick / have a poosplosion or the toddler needs her bum wiping etc etc etc at exactly the time I’m supposed to put the baby down.

Also they say naps should mostly be at home (although they concede that morning and late afternoon can be in the pram or car to allow you to get out ). And should be in a quiet dark room. This is tricky if you want baby to nap in the same room as you ( as per safe sleep guidance). As it means you have to sit in the dark for all naps. And is impossible if you have older children.

The guidance from the forum on the app is exactly the same as from the guide itself. They basically say that if you can’t get your baby do what the program says then it must have a medical problem. To me this seems like medicalising normal baby behaviour.

I can’t get my 11 week old to follow their timings for feeds or naps for love nor money. But I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with him.

I see what you mean Graysor.

I was already following a similar schedule before I even read the programme and this is based on the literature a sleep consultant gave me when I used them for my eldest. It works well for me with 2 because I have a small age gap and the awake times get both mine having the lunchtime nap at the same time and bedtime at the same time so I can get out either side. As I am housebound for that nap anyway with my eldest, it is fantastic to have them both sleeping at the same time so I can make dinner, clear up etc.

I'm not overly strict about achieving 5 minute windows and I also don't have baby staying awake as long as Little Ones suggests for age (currently 8 weeks) as I can't achieve that. But then the literature I am using from sleep consultant makes allowances for that.

Saying all that, I know if I were to go back in time, I could not have got my eldest to follow it based on the information that is provided by Little Ones. Knowing everything I do after sleep training my eldest, I can make it work for DC2 but I have read and learnt so much about baby behaviour, sleep cycles etc from other places that I know where I need to be rigid and where I can make allowances.

I totally agree with the schedule in general. And the emphasis on getting the right awake time is helpful. As it’s so easy for babies to be kept up too long and get overtired.

I just really struggle with the idea that you can just pop a young baby down for a nap, and it will reliably sleep for 2 hours. Mine have never ever done that. And neither have plenty of other babies if you read the posts on the sleep board!

My dd is nearly 3 and hasn’t napped since about 2.3yo. Even when she had a rock solid routine of 2 and then 1 naps a day she never slept for longer than an hour and a half.

I got the timings to work with DC2 by getting help with my eldest and baby napping in my arms. This way I rocked and patted him back to sleep when we woke early from the lunchtime nap, and I used him stirring as an opportunity to get him up from the morning nap. Once he was doing shorter morning nap followed by long lunchtime nap in my arms for 5 days, I started getting him to sleep in his crib and resettled whenever he woke too early. We've had success so far but same intervention with a different baby can easily result in different outcome.

My eldest just turned 2 and her nap durations vary depending on whether she's with grandparents or me. She was doing almost 3 hours when we dropped from 2 naps to 1 each day and now does anything between 1-2.5 hours for lunchtime nap. I'm not sure how long it is going to last but am praying we have some sort of a nap until she's 3

Thank you so much for all the replies! I'm not keen on rigid routines, apart from at bedtime so think I'll give it a miss! But your advice and experiences are much appreciated xx

No! Don’t do it! I tried to follow the ridiculous routine and it made my little girl chronically overtired as she needed more day sleep than it said she should have and she’s only ever been able to achieve (even now at 1) max 11 hours at night (I’m not complaining) . I kept pushing it and she just got more and more overtired to the point that she started waking at 5am and it took me 6 months to get her out of!