Letting baby create own routine

[ellasmum]

Hi..

My DD is now 16 weeks old and I am at my wits end - I have tried various things (including GF) and I still do not seem to have a schedule.

I am clueless what her feeding cycle is as I am still feeding her when she gets really cross.

I would love to know from Mums who have let baby decide their own routine how they did it. In particular the sleep issue - I can tell DD is tired so go to put her in the cot for a nap but she just screams unless I feed her to sleep - she then only naps for 45 minutes max. Sometimes I can get her back to sleep again by picking her up and patting her but more often than not it doesn't work.

I feel so sorry for DD as she is obviously not getting enough sleep day or night and looks exhausted. I am happy for her to find her own rythum but need to be able to get her to go to sleep

Hi Ellasmum, I can't offer a lot of advice, except to reassure you (as other here did for me) that it will get better. My son took ages to 'settle' but now at 10months, he's a total angel who sleeps for three hours in the day and 12 hours at night. And for the first 7 months of his life I never thought that was possible. Hang on in there, try not to stress too much about it (a baby never died from lack of sleep!) and take some of the no doubt excellent advice you'l be getting.

my dd (10 weeks) is now more or less in a routine (naps in the day vary but she always has 3, bedtime is fixed). We're roughly following gf - in that i put her down for naps after two hours, but i don't try very hard to wake her - some days she needs more sleep. Anyway what helped me was a dummy - stops her screaming and allows me to space her feeds sometimes. even now she doesn't always need a dummy but i find it invaluable in getting her to go to sleep and preventing her from becoming overtired.

Yes, have to agree with both the nap two hours after waking and the dummy suggestion. They both worked for me. Also, some babies do cry themselves to sleep - my ds still does this quite often. It doesn't take long before he drops off. I don't think he's unhappy really, as he wakes up smiling like anything - he just needs a five-ten minute grizzle to get off for some reason. Plus, I think a 45 minute sleep is perfectly normal. If he woke up from a nap I always got him up unless it was a brief, grizzly waking. I just think some babies take longer than others to settle - frustrating though it is. It won't always be like this - promise!

I found it helpfull to write everything down times you feed, when you put her in a cot how long she sleeps for, how happy she is etc. My dd was quite unsettled up until 4 months and did this in desperation to take to the hv but it helped me to see a pattern (her routine i suppose).I also read GF and The Baby Whisperer and used GF as rough guidelines, i definately agree with the 2 hours after they wake they are tired again (even now at 6 mths) but sometimes 45 mins is long enough especially when they start sleeping through. DD has two longer sleeps and at other times just a quite 10 mins doze and cuddle is all she wants. The baby whisperer helped me to really understand the signals dd was giving to me. Such as turning away from me when she tired and overstimulated. DD loves order and routine now so we do the same thing in the same order day in, day out!! Its a lot quieter and shes really happy but miss her 'i'm tired signals' and minutes later she's reached meltdown!! I'm no expert but hope it helps.

Hi, ellasmum. My dd is now 5 mo and isn't in a routine. Some babies seem to fall into them and others don't. I've decided not to push it with dd, she's definitely not a routine sort of a girl (I swear that she laughed when she saw me reading gf!)

In terms of sleep, I'd recommend "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" by E.Pantley. Our dd's quality of sleep has improved since we used this book even though she still does it at odd times. There is specific advice about weaning a baby from nursing to sleep.

It'd be nice if dd was in a routine, I've posted about it on here but have decided to take aloha's advice and be patient. I do notice small changes (dd has now decided that she can fall asleep in the cot on her own- no tears, no fuss) so I can agree that it does get better!

Hi again, with my ds, craning towards me with back arched and mouth open means hungry, sudden crying after being cheerful means tired, droopy eyes and eye rubbing means tired, yawning definitely means tired. If I see any of the latter signs and it is about two hours after he woke up or after lunch, he goes straight into his sleeping bag in his cot, given a big kiss and I walk straight out, regardless of crying. He almost always stops and goes to sleep by the time I've got downstairs. When he was tiny he used to get like this roughly every 1.5, 2 hours so I kept half an eye on the clock. Obviously if I was out, he slept in his pushchair. One mistake I used to make was to try to cheer him up if he was crying by cuddling, feeding, bouncing etc, which made him go ballistic, because he was just tired and wanted to sleep. Leaving him alone, but just rocking him in his pushchair around the house, taking him for a walk or putting him in his cot would have worked better! Don't worry if your dd sleeps erratically - she will eventually be more predictable. Also, feeding to sleep isn't terrible. I rather miss it now.

Thanks for all the info - I have been putting DD down after about 2 hours or when she gives me her tired signs. Problem is that she really screams when I put her down. Maybe I should leave her for a bit longer as it is her way of releasing energy before sleep. WHO KNOWS?????

Fingers crossed all will get better - have just started DD on baby rice at night so am hoping this may help the many night wakings.

Has any one else noticed more night wakings in this heat??

Have you tried a dummy? They're not evil and they can help with sleep IMO.

Ellasmum - definitely more night wakings in the heat for us.

ellasmum - I found that if I put ds down in his sleeping bag that that worked out well, even though it was daytime, also, I feel a bit ashamed to admit it but I ran downstairs and hid once I had put him down, and went back up after ten minutes when peace invariably reigned. I rationaled to myself that he would be more cranky and upset if he DIDN'T sleep than he would be after a few minutes crying. Lo and behold he wakes up happy and smiling after a much needed nap.

He was about your dd's age at that time maybe a little younger and once that morning map was sorted out, I did the same with an afternoon nap. Now he sleeps for 1 -11/2 hours in the am and 1-11/2 hours in the pm apart from at nursery where he seems to be able to get by on about an hour a day.

It does get better

Good luck

Dd is definitely weird in the hot weather i.e. playing at 2 in the morning.

I agree with Zoe about sleeping bags. After a few days DD sussed it and knew she was going to be put down for a sleep. They should put them in the Bounty Packs instead of all the other junk. I've got baby lotion to last a lifetime! Perhaps you could try to do something that takes about 10 mins or so after you've put DD down and not go up until you've done it. 10 mins seems a lot longer when you sat on the stairs listenning to every scream.

What heat mentioned before - come to scotland - it is pouring.

I foung babies slept for longer outside - get her out in the pram, then when she is sleeping park her outide where you can see her (in the shade of course!).

Ellasmum, ds also stays awake for 2 hours. I find that if I put him in his cot after 1 1/2 hours, while he is still wide awake, he will play alone for 20 or 30 minutes then go to sleep when he is ready. The trick is to get him in his cot while he is still a happy bunny and not an overtired grumpster.

HTH, persevere and you will get there. Good luck.

Yes, yes, yes to sleeping bags - ds knows they are part of the routine. However, ditched even the lightweight one from Bonne Nuit during the hot spell and ds just slept in a nappy a loose t-shirt. I could tell he missed his sleeping bag, but it made him wake up all hot and sweaty. He slept fine in next to nothing.

Yes, yes, yes to sleeping bags - ds knows they are part of the routine. However, ditched even the lightweight one from Bonne Nuit during the hot spell and ds just slept in a nappy a loose t-shirt. I could tell he missed his sleeping bag, but it made him wake up all hot and sweaty. He slept fine in next to nothing.

I completely agree about the sleeping bag - put DD back in hers yesterday for her naps and she slept much better after not having one due to hot weather.

I have tried leaving her for 10 minutes or so - usually go and ring a friend to distract myself - but lately the crying has got really really out of control and unbearable (to me probably not to her!!!). Also, we live in a flat so it is quite hard to escape. Maybe I should go to the other end of hte garden and do some digging for a while.

Those of you that left babies for a while to cry -what did you do if they didn't stop. I have tried picking her up and trying to calm her down but with no success so end up nursing her as I am so desperate for her to have some sleep. She wakes up sooo much happier after a long nap rather than these useless 45 minute ones she seems to keep having.

Any tips on extending nap length??

I think I must have a particularly sweaty baby! He has been sleeping in just t-shirt (short pj top) and nappy with a top sheet for weeks. In the hot weather we ditched the t-shirt and sheet and left the fan on.

Hi Ellasmum, when ds was tiny I never really left him to cry, and even now he's 10mos 15-20 mins is the max (he's never needed longer than that) and that's in the middle of the night or if he's just whinging. I'd never leave a tiny baby to scream for more than five or ten minutes. If ds didn't settle (which was often!) I'd pop his dummy in, wheel him back and forward in his pushchair, take him out for a walk or a drive or just cuddle/feed him. I really think some babies do just sleep for 45 mins. Tracey Hogg, the maternity nurse who wrote the Baby Whisperer book says that in her experience little babies stay awake for 45mins playing, feed for 45mins and then sleep for 45mins. I take all these routines with a pinch of salt, but according to her your dd is right on the button! I do believe babies will get the sleep they need and with my ds, his naps extended in time and regularity as he got older. I really don't think you need to be so desperate to 'make' your dd sleep. If you are calm and happy with her and give her opportunities to sleep when she is tired, she will take what she needs. I'm sure she's just fine and a little individual who wants to be with her mum. I do know how tiring and stressful it is, but it will get easier..

Bozza I think we both do! Mine leaves a wet patch wherever he sleeps, and if he nods off in my arms then I have to change after because I'm soaked! Mind you he's always been like it, not just since the sun came out.

Hi Aloha...

I have read the Baby Whisperer and infact have taken part in a programme about Tracy Hogg. I think this is one of the reasons that I am so hung up on length of naps.

She told me that DD should be having 3 naps adding up to approx. 5 hours of sleep during the day. So roughly 1.5 hours in morning, 2 hours at lunch and a quickie late afternoon to see her through till bathtime. To be honest DD seems much happier when she has longer naps but it doesn't happen very often.

Ellasmum, have you read the Pantley book? She is big on creating sleep cues, which could be a routine, using key words (e.g. ssh, it's okay, time for sleep) and/or music. You can use these to help your dd to fall back to sleep if she wakes from her nap too early. Dd positively fights sleep sometimes, she seems convinced that she will miss out on something and does all she can to stay awake. These sleep cues really help. Oh, and getting dd attatched to a cuddly has helped, too. If you do this, don't make the mistake that I did and get something with crunchy material on it - at 2 in the morning it sounds like someone eating sweets in the cinema!

Have you tried a dummy? Dd gets a gripey tummy abnd chewing on her dummy really does relieve the pain, I told her paedetrician about this and she confirmed that dummies are good for unsettled babies. IMO it would be cruel to take dd's dummy away from her.

I know so much how you are feeling. As I said, our dd is 5 mo and still not in a routine, but I feel very much like my old self. It does get better. I found that I wanted a 'plan' each day for dealing with things which is why I feel that you might like the Pantley book.

Our ex-hv recommended leaving dd to cry for 10 mins before going to her, which we tried once. Dd got in such a state, she was inconsolable for hours and was rigid with distress. Some babies seem okay with being left to cry and others don't. Either way cc isn't recommended for babies under six mo.

Good luck!

Are you bf ellasmum? As you said you feed her to sleep perhaps she is taking her milk in small amounts and is waking up because she feels hungary again. Has someone else tried to put DD to sleep. Are the problems just in the day or at night as well?
My dd cried from 8weeks to 16weeks almost constantly and was obviously painfully overtired and stressed. My hv said she was attention seeking and I should leave her to cry but I felt I couldnt because she would get hysterical. If your DD is hysterical then I dont feel you've got much choice but to pick her up but I would try not to feed her or take her out of the nursery just try to calm and soothe her and place her back into the cot. I only let my DD cry when it is little sobs which are getting less and less. I would never leave her crying hysterically. With my DD I stuck to my guns, watched for her tired cues and one day we just turned the corner.
Does DD have a dummy or suck her thumb. My DD wouldnt take a dummy but did try to suck her thumb for comfort but was about 20 weeks before she could do this well enough to settle herself.
Maybe your stuck with it for a bit I can only suggest you work out your own routine/groundrules (like not feeding her to sleep IMO it doesnt help in the long run) and stick with them even if they dont appear to be working at first. Perhaps a bath would help to make her sleepy (my dd hates it but it does seem to make her sleepy) Sorry if I'm waffling, just trying to help as I know how stressfull it can be. Try and get as much help as poss. you might have to ask for it as sometimes freinds and family dont realise you like some still.

ionesmum - I have read Pantley's book (infact I have read every book going - currently reading Ferber - you can tell I am getting desperate).

I have been incorporating some of her ideas - and found them to be helpful.

Re. dummy - dd WILL NOT take one - I ended up holding it in for up to an hour when we were trying to use it.

Ames - thanks for the info. re. thumb sucking. dd does suck her thumb but it doesn't seem to be satisfying her as yet - sometimes it works but not always.

I know that I need to stop feeding her to sleep - but I am so shattered that it is the easy option at the moment. I am going home for the weekend to get some help and much needed rest.